125 years after the signing of Treaty 8, many of the promises made to Canada’s northern First Nations remain unfulfilled. In this episode, we explore the history, impact, and ongoing struggles surrounding one of Canada’s largest treaties. Charmaine Willier-Larsen, a descendant of a Treaty 8 signatory, shares how reconnecting with her heritage led her to create the Bannock n Bed, a cultural inn just two kilometres where the treaty was signed on Lesser Slave Lake in 1899. We also hear from Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi of Treaty 8 First Nations of Alberta, who breaks down the treaty’s original promises, the systemic barriers that persist, and the fight to uphold Indigenous rights.
Listen to the episode:
Angela Misri – Let me take you back to the summer of 1899. Canada’s borders are expanding, our population is growing rapidly. It’s a time of change, opportunity, and uncertainty.
And in late June, amidst these changes, a group of government officials, missionaries, and Indigenous leaders have gathered near Lesser Slave Lake. The land around them is quiet, but the weight of what’s about to happen is anything but. They’re about to sign a document that will change the course of history for northern First Nations communities—Treaty 8.
Welcome to Season Three of Canadian Time Machine, the podcast that dives into the key moments that have shaped our country. This podcast receives funding from the Government of Canada and is produced by The Walrus Lab. I’m Angela Misri.
This episode marks the 125th anniversary of the signing of Treaty 8, which we observed in 2024. In the years since, Treaty 8 First Nations have fought to uphold their rights, revitalize their languages, and protect their lands, despite the challenges that followed the treaty.
Today, we’ll explore the complex history of the treaty. Why was it signed? What did it promise? And how did it shape the lives of Indigenous people in the North, then and now?
In the last few years of the 19th century, The Klondike Gold Rush was in full swing, and thousands of prospectors were drawn to Canada’s North by the promise of fortune.
But the sudden influx of settlers and resource extraction created tension. As reports of miners treating Indigenous people with contempt and violence increased, so did the pressure for the government to take some sort of action.
The response came in the form of Treaty 8, a monumental agreement signed on June 21, 1899. Unlike earlier Numbered Treaties, Treaty 8 covered an enormous area—over 841,000 square kilometers—stretching across what is now Alberta, Saskatchewan, British Columbia, and the Northwest Territories.
The Indigenous nations inhabiting the land didn’t live in large communal settlements, but in smaller groups, each with their own distinct governance, cultures and ways of life. So, when the federal government set out to negotiate the terms of the treaty, they weren’t just negotiating land rights—they were negotiating the way it would govern each of these northern territories.
Eventually, the signatories agreed to the treaty, based on a number of oral promises made by the federal government. Promises that the old and the poor would be taken care of, that medical care would be provided when needed, and—most importantly—that nothing would interfere with each community’s way of life.
For generations, those impacted by Treaty 8 have fought to hold the government accountable to these promises, many of which were broken a long time ago.
But history is not just about the past—it’s about the people who carry it forward. The legacy of Treaty 8 is still felt today, not just in its challenges, but in the strength, determination, and cultural revitalization of its descendants.
Charmaine Willier-Larsen – Listening to stories from our elders and our knowledge keepers, is that they understood that they were going to share the land with the settlers that were coming in and the treaties were signed that we would agree that they wouldn’t, you know, they wouldn’t harm or hurt the settlers and they were to, you know, share the land.
Angela Misri – Meet Charmaine Willier-Larsen. She is a descendent of Louison Willier, also known as Moostoos, which means “Buffalo” in Cree. Moostoos was a hunter, trapper, and healer, and he was the key spokesperson for the Cree during the Treaty 8 negotiations. He and his younger brother, Kinosew, were some of the first Indigenous leaders to sign the treaty.
Charmaine Willier-Larsen – There’s a lot of Williers in our First Nation and around, and I am one of the descendants of the signatories. My great uncle— which was my grandfather’s father —his older brothers were the politicians in the family. And my great-grandfather, Michelle, was the youngest of the seven brothers, and his older brothers were Moostoos and Kinosew. They signed the treaty—I say a rock’s throw away, about a couple miles north of my BNB on the Sucker Creek First Nation. We have all of these families that are descendants from those seven brothers. So yeah, we’re probably about 4 ,000 of us.
Angela Misri – Charmaine grew up in Sucker Creek First Nation, on the shore of Lesser Slave Lake, where her ancestors have led the community as chiefs and members of council for hundreds of years. But as a child who attended a Residential School, she wasn’t as knowledgeable about the history of her family and of Treaty 8 as she is now.
Charmaine Willier-Larsen – My generation, and my mom’s generation, and my grandparents’ generation all had to attend residential school. So it wasn’t talked about much in the history or, it wasn’t relevant. Now because we are regaining our culture, our history and just proud to be indigenous again, I think. Even in my mom’s generation, like we knew our ancestors, we’ve heard about the stories, but we just didn’t make it a priority to say, “Okay, let’s write this all down. Let’s do a family tree. Let’s make sure that our children and the people around us know who we are.” So I think it’s becoming stronger and we’re proud now in the last 10, 20 years it’s becoming more exciting to know where we came from and to share that.
Angela Misri – So, to help share the stories and culture of her ancestors— and to create jobs and income for her community, Charmaine singlehandedly runs the Bannock n Bed inn, just 2kilometres from where her ancestors signed Treaty 8.
Charmaine Willier-Larsen – My ex-husband and I built this beautiful house on the reservation that I’m from, Sucker Creek. It’s a big 2,200 square foot rancher. And then 10 years ago I was like, wow, I’ve got this big house and the kids have grown up. My two boys are growing up, moved away. I went through a divorce and I thought, what am I going to do with this big 2
, 200 square foot house? It’s like, and everybody I mean, because my friends would stop in and visit and get great sleeps. And I thought, geez, I wonder if I could probably sell this idea. Like, it’s so soothing and comforting. And everybody says it’s such a wonderful place to relax and be grounded. And I was like, wow, it’d be a great—maybe we should do a bed and breakfast.
Angela Misri – But starting a bed and breakfast on a reservation wasn’t exactly a popular idea.
Charmaine Willier-Larsen – I think I’m one of the first B &Bs on a First Nation that I know of, and I laughed when I had the idea to open a B &B on the First Nation. I was like, “Who is going to come and pay to sleep on a reserve?” But I’ve always been kind of gutsy and went, “Well, I’m going to be the first. I’ve got to be the first.”
Angela Misri – The Bannock n Bed isn’t just an inn for you to get a good night’s sleep, it’s a cultural experience for you to learn about Cree traditions and connect with Indigenous history. You can wander down the historical walkway to read the storyboard about how Treaty 8 was signed, learn about the Willier family tree, eat a homemade bannock breakfast, or even sleep in a traditional Tipi.
And if you take it from these Google Reviews, it leaves a lasting impression on everyone who stays there.
This one reads: “This place is a little piece of paradise. Charmaine is an exceptional host! The rooms, cabins and tipis are all beautiful.”
Another says: “The highlight was our fish supper of walleye caught the same day out ice fishing on the lake, which was cooked to perfection. Outstanding hospitality.”
Charmaine Willier-Larsen – I thought it was kind of a crazy idea, but actually people are like, “Wow, we want to be there. We want to sleep in a tipi. We want to learn about your culture.” People are so eager to find out more about us and then it gives me the opportunity to share our culture and also to educate where we came from and who we’re the descendants of.
Angela Misri – Since opening her doors to people from all over the world, Charmaine says she’s been witness to some amazing experiences with guests.
Charmaine Willier-Larsen – I had this cowboy from down in Drayton Valley, like a real true Caucasian cowboy. And he was up doing some work off the reserve, and his daughter rented him a room. And he comes in, and you know, here’s your room, this is who we are, and you know, introduce him. So he was there for a couple days, and then the third day he came out, and then he says to me, he goes, “I got a hold my daughter and I said, ‘Hey, what did you do? You booked me on a reservation!’ and she was, ‘Oh my god Dad! Are you okay? Do you want to get out of there? I’ll fix your booking, I’ll get you out of there, are you okay?!” And he’s like, “No, I actually kind of like it here. It’s just like my place out on the ranch.” He said, “These people are lovely and it’s really comfortable and I really like it.” So, it was kind of cute because it was like, you know, they were scared for his safety being on a reservation. So the next week he came back and he brought me this beautiful, it was like a head of a bull with the horns. Brought it as a gift because he said he just loved the place and he just totally had a wonderful time and it was the best experience and he’s telling all his friends. And so that to me was like, wow. Reconciliation, one cowboy at a time.
Angela Misri – And when another guest came to Sucker Creek looking for his own ancestry, Charmaine helped him reconnect with the family he’d never had the chance to meet.
Charmaine Willier-Larsen – He started talking. He says, “Yeah, I’m a 60 scoop kid. And I’m 64 years old. And I don’t know who my family is I finally got a last name last month.” And I said, ‘Well what’s the name?” So he tells me the name and I’m like oh I know somebody with that last name, let me get a hold of them. They connected, this guy’s been looking for his family for 20 years, and all he had to do was come to the B &B. And I connected them up. We all cried because he found his long-lost family so it’s been kind of a spiritual, special place is what it’s kind of feeling like at times.
Angela Misri – The Bannock n Bed and its guests over the years have helped Charmaine reconnect with her Indigeneity as well.
Charmaine Willier-Larsen – It has totally changed my life and my thinking and the spiritualness and just allowing things to happen. And it’s kind of like that if you build it, they will come. Where it’s it’s like I wasn’t sure what I was doing or why I was doing it and you know I get these messages of, “Yes! Build it! Yes, keep doing what you’re doing!” So it’s changed my thinking to think more spiritually and let the Creator guide you.
Angela Misri – And she can feel that her ancestors are proud of her.
Charmaine Willier-Larsen – I just say, “Okay, if there’s any spirits hanging around don’t scare the guests.” I’ve got to say that once in a while. You can hang about because in our culture we are pretty connected to our ancestors in the spirit world. I just don’t want to scare guests and I believe that everybody is brought to the BNB for a reason. You don’t just show up. You come, you learn, you act up, and you’re here for a reason. Everybody’s here for a reason.
Angela Misri – While Charmaine can’t host everyone, she does wish everyone could have an experience like the Bannock n Bed. She believes it would help challenge the stigma and ignorance that Indigenous people continue to face every day.
Charmaine Willier-Larsen – All my life I’ve been told, “Oh, you guys are using our tax money. Oh, you guys are just like a burden, and you’re just, you know, and I have to pay taxes to pay for you.” And it’s like, no, some of the things that people think that we’re just demanding, we’re being demanding and wanting this and wanting that, people need to be educated that that was promises that were given to us. Those promises were made by the colonial people wanting to take and giving us these promises that they would give us this and that, you know, before you are angry with us for, you know, asking for this or that. But we’re not asking for anything, we’re just asking for what was promised.
Angela Misri – So what exactly was promised? And why is it that, over a century later, some of them remain unfulfilled? Treaty 8 laid out a vision for a better future for everyone—but today’s reality hasn’t exactly reflected that vision.
To help us understand the complex details of the treaty, and its ongoing repercussions, I’m joined by Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi of Treaty 8 First Nations of Alberta.
Hello, Grand Chief.
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – Hello.
Angela Misri – You’re in Alberta right now?
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – Yes.
Angela Misri – Ah, I’m from Calgary. I went to the University of Calgary, so I know it well.
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – Right on. Yeah, it’s a beautiful province.
Angela Misri – It is. So Treaty 8 was signed with a number of promises, including the right to continue traditional practices, like hunting, fishing, and trapping. However, some of these promises remain unfulfilled. Can you give us a bit of an overview of these key promises and how they were supposed to benefit the indigenous nations of the region?
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – Well, Treaty 8, you know, we have a large, it’s the largest treaty in Canada. We have vast resources, we have vast lands. It encompasses Northern Alberta, parts of BC, parts of Saskatchewan and parts of the Northwest Territories. And when treaty was made, all of these promises were made that would allow us to live our life as we lived our life before the settlers had came. And our leaders of the time were very adamant and clear that our people wanted to live their life as they seen fit, our normal lives, but in time they didn’t fulfill those promises at all. Today we’re still impacted by the decisions that are legislated in past at the federal level and also at provincial levels.
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – The provinces are not supposed to be able to have jurisdiction over the First Nations, the federal government’s not supposed to have jurisdiction over the First Nations, but yet today they have jurisdiction and they pass it back and forth to each other while our nations are suffering to this day. When we talk about the actual trapping and hunting and fishing, you know, they put legislation in place that limits us and how we can do these types of activities. And it’s to the point now where we’re not free to move around and practice our rights. We’re tied up in small nations and they give us what they call traditional areas. Well, if we looked at what the treaty was meant, you know, that this whole territory is ours, it was meant to be ours. We never gave it up. There is no way that our ancestors would sell their mother. When we talk about the land, we talk about the earth, you know, that’s our mother. We would never sell our mother. We belong to Mother Earth. And when the treaties come back from England, they weren’t the way that the chiefs and the leaders of the time had made treaty. There was omissions, there was things removed, and this deliberation happened over a period of days. So that’s why we refuse to say that treaty was signed.
Angela Misri – It wasn’t signed.
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – Treaty was made. We can find instances that corroborate our stories of how treaty was made and how a lot of our people were misinformed and how they were led to believe certain things and then when it the treaty came back from England it was totally different than what was agreed upon and in the meantime we had legislation coming to effect like the NRTA which is a natural resources transfer act which is only the prairie provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba, and what that legislation did was allow the provinces to manage the resources. In other words, it gave them the power over the resources and a lot of the water, which we would never agree with, right? The province came to be in 1905, which was years after the treaty was signed. When this legislation came into effect. It was illegal for us to have legal representation. So a lot of what we’re doing today is as leaders, as chiefs, is trying to regain that authority that was taken from us. And the authority that we have is derived from the membership of our people. Our members are the true communities. As long as we’re here, as long as we’re alive, we’ll always be treaty people. Organizations can’t take that away. And as hard as, you know, the federal government tries and, you know, they try to assimilate us, try to remove us from our lands, try to bring us into other communities for services that should be in our own communities that we’re still strong. Our language is strong in a lot of the communities. And that’s not to say that we don’t have our struggles with health. You know, when we talk about the treaty right to health, it’s not being fulfilled at all. In Alberta, here we have a serious issue when it comes to health. The Indigenous people have an 18.5-year age gap when it comes to life expectancy from the non -Indigenous. Just in Alberta. And this is statistics from 2024.
Angela Misri – When you talk about medical care, what is your experience? Has the government in any way the government of Canada made any significant efforts to fulfill any of those promises or are communities still waiting for the support? Based on what you just said, it sounds like they’re still waiting.
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – Well, the federal government will always tell us that they’re doing their best. But the fact of the matter is the federal government is funding the province with a lot of our funding, our programs, dollars are going straight to the province. In Alberta, with the health system in place right now, it’s falling apart. And yet the federal government is signing deals with the province when it comes to our health. So we have a real problem with that. We’re being left out and we don’t like to be left out because our people are suffering. We’re always being told that there’s specific issues regarding the life expectancy differences that we see. Well, the first thing that they’ll tell us is there’s high overdoses. Okay, well, that may be, but why? Why is there so much more drug use? Where does that start? So when you really start peeling back the layers of why our nations are suffering, why our people are suffering, it all comes down to the trauma that we suffered in the years before, the generations before, when it comes to residential school and the racism that we face each day, it’s hard not to remove yourself from those issues. So we’re trying our best to close those gaps and have our people, not just the general public, but our people know that these issues are severe and we’re working on it. But the federal government, they know when we start peeling back these layers to fix these problems, it’s going to take about 20, 30, 40 years of hard work. And that’s a lot of funding involved in that. So is the federal government going to open a checkbook and allow us to heal? A lot of what we do today is just, in my opinion, it’s symbolic. No real change for our people. You know, we could have a holiday here. We could have a land acknowledgement here and all this good stuff. We could raise a flag.
But in comment sections, you see the racism all over. Any time there’s any type of media releases regarding Indigenous people, you see the racism full and well. But you know, if it wasn’t for the Indigenous people, a lot of the people, the settlers that came into these lands would have never survived. You know, And our people, they taught them how we live, they showed them how we live. We like to think as a generation, two generations, three generations, that’s not that far. As little as two or three generations ago, they remember the settlers coming into our area and with them they brought alcohol. There was no alcohol up there until the settlers came. So, you know, in a roundabout way a lot of our issues are caused by colonization and not allowing us to be who we are as people.
Angela Misri – As the leader of Treaty 8 First Nations, you’ve long advocated for the recognition of these promises. What has been the government’s response to these calls? And how has their lack of action affected the relationship between Indigenous communities and the state?
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – So we’re definitely going backwards. You know when it comes to the world and relationships and environmentally and and politically, I believe that our kids are gonna have a lot of rough time than we did and I often have to ask myself, you know, when we’re gonna do something about it Not it’s just as indigenous people, but non-indigenous, right?
Angela Misri – Of course. It’s all of our responsibilities,
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – Yes, and that’s a big concern of mine. So, in dealing with a lot of the ministers and what not at a higher level, and they would have these ideas, and I would ask them, “Do you think about your grandkids?” And, you know, they tell me all bushy-tailed and bright-eyed, “Oh, everything’s going to be fine, everything’s good.” And that’s the mentality of a lot of our people right now, especially in government. When the government makes plans, they’re looking 50 years to 100 years ahead, right? We’re the last to know of those plans as indigenous people because we’re all with the sand and the gears, we’re always slowing things down and rightfully so because we have those concerns.
Angela Misri – I can’t imagine the amount of responsibility that you feel. Or do you feel like you’re speaking on behalf of the entire mother, of the entire land, of the entire history of… It just feels like a lot of responsibility.
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – When I speak, it’s always for everybody, but being a Grand Chief, it provided me with a different perspective. It taught me to be more open -minded and more respectful of nations and their leaders’ decisions. One thing that I always say is I always wish people could sit in the Chief’s meetings and hear the Chief’s fight for their people. The Chiefs don’t get enough respect for You know a lot of the chiefs grow with thick skin and they deal with it, but it’s hard. They’re human, so I think a little bit more understanding. I love to see people come in and see the chiefs push For their people and see that they’re not being forgotten seeing that they are being Listened to and that the chiefs have their best interest in their minds at all times.
Angela Misri – Yeah. When you think about reconciliation or true reconciliation, as it pertains to Treaty 8, how do you think those wrongs can be righted? Do you see solutions or do you see ways to get past the broken promises? Do you see a way to reconciliation in this?
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – Well, you see, that’s the problem. Reconciliation, the word.
Angela Misri – Okay.
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – How do we reconcile something that was never there.
Angela Misri – I know. It is…
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – So the word reconciliation doesn’t belong there and I’ve spoken about this before. The way I look at it, the only way we can reconcile or grow would be to give the nations their authority that they deserve. A part of the resource revenue that’s coming in. Allow them to be sovereign. Why are we signing funding agreements that put our people into poverty? Why are we moving down these certain avenues that the government is pushing us down when we know our rights, we know our authority, and they know our rights, and they know our authority. That’s why they’re afraid. Anytime we push forward, they’d rather have us go to court because they know that the courts can slow us down for a certain amount of years. That’s the fact of the matter. So the nations are getting smarter and they’re starting to sue right away. They’re starting to litigate right away. They’re starting to talk to lawyers right away. What I think we need to do as Indigenous people is regain our strengths and don’t be afraid to speak up about any and all issues. We have to provide awareness to the non-Indigenous people that they should be appreciative that they’re here, appreciative that we shared these lands because it was the settlers that needed the treaty, especially Treaty 8. Treaty 8 is the largest, richest treaty in Canada and the resources taken from our treaty areas in the billions every year. We don’t get one cent of that revenue. All of the surrounding communities of our nations have hospitals, have community centers, have arenas, have all these services for their people and their kids to grow. And then we look at the indigenous population and point fingers and talk about poverty and how traumatized they are. Well, a lot of ethnicities would be traumatized if they face genocide like our people. 100%. Genocide is one word that’s not used enough when it comes to our people. From removing the children, stripping of their identity, killing our people through disease, health. The history of Canada is not so nice.
Angela Misri – Of course. Sterilization, 60s scoop, there’s a lot.
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – And we’re finding out more. When I was I never knew about the, all these things that happened in residential school. My mother didn’t teach us. No, my mother was in residential school, but they called it the mission. You know, a lot of our people were, were beaten, removed, all that, all that stuff that we all know today that wasn’t heard of back before 2010. And so in weird ways, we are coming further, but in others, I would say we’re not. We have a distance to go. Yes, and we can’t get there without the proper resources. We can’t untraumatize ourselves with no resources. We’re looking ahead, today was an education conference where we talked about children because we all know our children are our future. And so it’s our responsibility to give them a better life than we had. It’s our responsibility to teach them the things that we weren’t taught. And while our kids may not be perfect, they might be better than we were.
Angela Misri – Hopefully, yep. This is such a huge… you can’t do this in one podcast. It’s such a huge topic and thought. As you said, this is historical, like it didn’t start at a time that was recent, but people have memories of Treaty 8. Our other guest, Charmaine, says there wasn’t much talk of it at all and she educated herself on it on the history of Treaty 8 as an adult. What was your experience with your community’s understanding and knowledge of Treaty 8?
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – When I was young, we didn’t hear too much about Treaty 8. I think that’s because the organizations around Treaty 8 were basically regional. And when we talked about Treaty 8 as a treaty area, it was very overarching. And I would say probably in the 90s, late 80s, 90s, they started to organize as a treaty eight organization. And things started to fall into place. And I believe it was in the early 2000s that treaty 8 of Alberta organization became, I guess, an organization. And that’s when you really started to hear about Treaty 8 and all those good things. When we were young, when we talked to our grandparents and whatnot, they didn’t talk about things like, “I’m a treaty. I can do this. I’m a treaty. I can do that.” They just knew. They just did it. They didn’t ask. We lost that over time because of our lifestyle changes, because we don’t hunt when we even talk about that line item in a treaty to hunt, trap and fish. Well, I bet there is a time when we trapped just for sustenance and fur, right?
Angela Misri – Sure.
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – So it’s weird to see that in a treaty in my opinion because it benefited settlers.
Angela Misri – Right.
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – Before the settlers came, there was no reason to pile beaver pelts so high to get a rifle. So in a weird way, there’s things in there that were added that were probably added to benefit the Europeans at the time. I often question that trapping idea because we sure we trapped, but we didn’t over trap. So those are big things that I think about. But yeah, that’s the way it was. You know, they just did it.
Angela Misri – Would you like a return to that, just out of curiosity? Would you like a return to that attitude?
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – Absolutely. I’ve always been like that. You know, there’s a story of my grandpa. He had a net in the river. Fish and wildlife, you know, went down there and told them they’re going to charge him. They’d never go get that net out of there. Well, he got in his canoe and picked up his net and kept going down river, you know. There are stories like that. Our people were real believers in their inherent right, which supersedes treaty.
Angela Misri – Yeah.
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – We don’t always have to use treaty to show that we have right Because we had right before we signed treaty.
Angela Misri – Exactly.
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – But treaties always at the forefront of our people and rightfully so because Treaty is just not a document. It’s spiritual. It’s a it’s alive and it’s fact
Angela Misri – Yeah, so appreciate this time. So appreciate it, Trevor. It was wonderful to speak to you. All the best. Thank you.
Grand Chief Trevor Mercredi – Awesome.
Angela Misri – Thank you for listening to Canadian Time Machine. This podcast receives funding from the Government of Canada and is created by the Walrus Lab. This episode was produced and edited by Jasmine Rach [rhymes with MATCH]. Amanda Cupido is the executive producer. For more stories about historic Canadian milestones and the English and French transcript of this episode, visit TheWalrus.ca/Canadianheritage. There’s also a French counterpart to this podcast called Voyages dans l’histoire canadienne. So if you’re bilingual and want to listen to more, you can find that wherever you get your podcasts.
