Feature

Coming Out

A gay-marriage opponent changes his mind

by
Illustration by Graham Roumieu

• 2,660 words

Illustration by Graham Roumieu

Ten years ago, in July 2005, the Canadian government made same-sex marriage the law of the land. Various provincial courts had recognized marriage equality, but now it had parliamentary weight and royal assent. There was no turning back. As with all good laws, Bill C-38, or the Civil Marriage Act, largely affirmed what most people already accepted as self-evident: that the rights and obligations of matrimony apply to two men or two women as much as they do to a man and woman.

It is only a matter of time before the United States as a whole follows Canada’s example. Whereas a decade ago no viable Republican candidate could even flirt with supporting the idea, today we have Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush explaining that while they still oppose marriage equality, they nevertheless would attend a gay or lesbian wedding if someone they “cared for” were involved.

All of which is to say: a decade on and quite a bit has changed, including me.

This past February, a conservative Roman Catholic blog, Contra|Diction, gave me perhaps my best headline ever: “Michael Coren Complicit in Destruction of Souls Who Practice Homosexuality, Pt 1” (I’m still waiting for part two). It was one of countless posts, tweets, and articles that have condemned me for coming out in favour of same-sex marriage. I’ve also been fired from columns that I wrote for years, been banned from various Catholic TV and radio stations, had speeches cancelled, and been accused of cheating on my wife. My children have been called gay, and I have been compared to a child molester and a murderer.

These are new experiences for me. Until last year, I was considered something of a champion of social conservatism in Canada and was well known among politically active Christians. I hosted a nightly show on Crossroads Television for twelve years, was a syndicated Sun columnist, and wrote briskly selling books with such titles as Why Catholics Are Right. Today, as a decade of same-sex marriage waves its arms at Pride parades, I am working away at a new book, Coming Out: A Christian’s Change of Heart and Mind over Gay Marriage. Oh, dear. How and why did it go so terribly wrong?

I grew up in an intensely secular home in England. Three of my grandparents were Jewish, but my mother’s mother—and it’s the maternal line that has to be kosher—was not. This was the 1960s and ’70s, and homosexuality always was mentioned in whispers. When people like my parents used the word queer, it was less pejorative than descriptive. The only acceptable face of it was on TV—British comics camping it up and playing effeminate stereotypes, all the while assuring us that in real life they could barely keep their pants on when attractive women walked past. They were, of course, all gay men off camera but never the caricatures they created on TV. Oh, the irony.

From a working-class home, I was propelled into university and then into London literary society, where I first encountered, at least in its inchoate stages, a proud and openly gay community. My first book, released in 1984, came about with the help of a highly respected—and gay—theatre critic, Jim Hiley, who recommended me to a publisher. There was no other way a twenty-five-year-old would have landed a contract. Then I went to work at the New Statesman, the country’s premier left-leaning magazine, when Christopher Hitchens still was on the staff. Ours was a masthead full of privately educated, clever, good-looking boys—all seduced by socialism. Gay influence was everywhere we looked, but none of us dared speak its name.

In 1985, I joined the Roman Catholic Church, which employs more gay men than any other institution in the world—despite leading the culture war against gay rights. That’s not to say the church is full of hatred and homophobia, but it has, as with some elements of the Protestant right, elevated the issue to a level that has no basis in scripture. Jesus never mentions same-sex attraction. Lesbianism is not referred to at all in the Old Testament. The letters of the Apostles mention homosexuality only briefly.

What references do exist make up a tiny, insignificant sliver of theological texts, a splash of minutiae within Christian thought. But it has become the prism through which myriad conservative Christians, particularly Catholics, judge one’s faith and conviction. It’s tragic on many levels.

As a newly minted Catholic journalist, I was thrown into the marriage debate, and I wrote and broadcast about the issue many times, defending the doctrine I had adopted as my converted creed. The issue was never a major part of my work, but, goodness, it sometimes felt like it. And I’m sure to gays and lesbians, who were understandably more interested in my views on them than on the Middle East, taxation policies, or Quebec, I probably became something of a monster. I said some bloody careless things, and at the very least empowered those who genuinely did have a hateful agenda.

But I never hated, because I couldn’t. I had too many gay friends, had been helped by too many gay people, simply did not care viscerally about the issue—which, in a way, makes my behaviour worse. It’s not that I was dishonest or disingenuous. More than anything, I was dogmatic.

Once I’d taken up the banner of anti–marriage equality, it became increasingly difficult to cast it off. I may sound weak, even pathetic and cowardly, but by 2012 I was hosting a daily show on the invincibly right-wing Sun News Network, writing columns for four Catholic publications, speaking to Catholic groups throughout North America and the United Kingdom, appearing on Catholic radio, and publishing Catholic books. A mingling of income, self-perception, and reputation made it difficult to say what I truly felt.

Finally, in 2013, Uganda’s biting homophobia brought me to my senses. Canada’s then foreign minister, John Baird, gently criticized a Kampala official about proposed legislation to further criminalize homosexuality—even to make it a capital offence. Baird, who had been a great defender of persecuted Christians, was stridently condemned by conservative Christian groups for criticizing noble Uganda and questioning its independence. I was outraged at Uganda and outraged at the treatment of Baird, and I said so on TV and in print.

And just like that, I realized how often the opposition to marriage equality was—and is—motivated not by a sense of duty to defend traditional wedlock but by a profound dislike of gays and lesbians.

I was bombarded with accusatory comments and stunned by how an innocuous, fundamentally Christian response to persecution could provoke such malice. The more I was pushed, the more I felt that I needed to speak out. In April 2014, I decided to come clean, or at least have a good wash, in my weekly Sun column. “In the past six months I have been parachuted into clouds of new realization and empathy regarding gay issues, largely and ironically because of the angry and hateful responses of some people to my defence of persecuted gay men and women in Africa and Russia,” I wrote. “This wasn’t reasonable opposition but a tainted monomania with no understanding of humanity and an obsession with sex rather than love.”

Then I went further: “I have evolved on this single subject because I can no longer hide behind comfortable banalities, have realized that love triumphs judgment, and know that the conversation between Christians and gays has to transform . . . I am sick and tired of defining the word of God by a single and not even particularly important subject.”

I was careful in my column not to contradict Catholic theology and didn’t even mention same-sex marriage. But that didn’t prevent an overwhelmingly hostile reaction from the Christian right. The response from the LGBT community, however, was quite different. I had come rather late to the secular dance (if fairly early to the Christian one) around this subject, but gay men and women from all over the world sent me kind notes and emails. I can’t imagine a Sun column was ever so widely read in gay circles, and it was impossible not to juxtapose the two reactions: anger and abuse from one group, forgiveness and gratitude from the other.

As a middle-aged, very white, very straight, very Christian man, I was obliged, first reluctantly and then eagerly, to explore the complex dynamic between faith and homosexuality and to work out a new narrative. The crux of that narrative: God is love. The love I felt when I first saw my newborn children, when I watched my mother dissolve into Alzheimer’s, when I found my late father’s diaries that spoke of his pride in our family, when I feel closest to the Christ I worship. Jesus spoke of love for everybody and called for forgiveness, justice, truth, turning the other cheek.

As my faith has deepened over the years, I have tried to broaden the circle of inclusive love rather than guard the borders of what I once thought was Christian truth. Instead of holding the door firm, I want to hold it wide open. I have realized that Christianity is a permanent revolution, a state of being in which we believers must challenge our preconceptions every moment of every day. How dare I—with all of my brokenness and sordid, banal sinfulness—criticize someone simply because he or she wants to live life fully? How the hell dare I?

The standard Christian response to homosexuality is the familiar but entirely inadequate mantra “love the sinner but hate the sin.” In other words, a gay person’s sexual and romantic attractions—much of their being and personality, and all that they want in a lasting relationship—is sinful, but they themselves are just fine. By way of analogy, the teachings go, Christians love alcoholics but not alcoholism, love those who commit adultery but not the act of adultery itself. Such logic presupposes that same-sex attraction is no more central to a person’s identity than substance abuse or unfaithfulness—which any reasonable person knows to be untrue.

More extreme Christians believe that one can pray away the gay and that gay people can be changed, which is why some continue to support so-called conversion therapy. They bristle at the suggestion that gays and lesbians are born that way: that thread of biological reasoning implies God created people who are powerfully disposed toward sinful lifestyles, which seems dubious no matter your religious tendencies.

The whole thing is like some theological rabbit hole that gets darker as you descend. It’s also dishonest. I have spoken to hundreds of Catholic groups and parishes over the years, and I would estimate that one out of every three priests is gay, and by no means are they all celibate. (Others have put the number as high as 50 percent.) The joke at the Vatican is that if the Swiss Guard find a priest in bed with a man, they are to ignore it. If with a woman, report it at once. There’s humour in that joke, but also horrifying hypocrisy.

There are Catholic priests in Canada living with their partners, and some of these men are prominent clerics. Living that lie, existing in such a state of moral dissonance, is achingly damaging. One former priest told me that he once visited a senior bishop (I am being purposely vague here) to explain that he was gay and needed to leave the priesthood. The bishop responded that it was okay to stay in the church and that the priest could have a parish outside of the city, where he could live with his lover. None of this, believe me, is shocking to those who truly know the church as insiders.

Evangelical denominations have far less of a subtly embedded gay culture (in part because they permit their male clerics to marry women), but there are infamous cases of high-profile Protestant critics of homosexuality being outed. Their hypocrisy takes another form: most evangelical churches blithely will remarry divorced people (even ministers can be divorced), despite the fact that Jesus, who doesn’t say a single word about homosexuality, is fiercely critical of dissolving a marriage. Indeed, in the Roman, Greek, and Jewish cultures in which he lived—where divorce was common and easy—his stance was revolutionary. Yet his followers have ignored those Christian teachings while inventing others on sexuality.

When it comes to same-sex marriage, history is not on the side of conservatives. Academics, popular historians, and theologians alike are re-exploring the context of Biblical passages and coming to a new understanding of what scripture says about homosexuality (a term not invented until the nineteenth century).

Sodom has much for which to answer. But even the Genesis story of Sodom and Gomorrah is more about hospitality—protecting one’s guests and neighbours, and loving God rather than oneself—than about condemning gays and lesbians. Remember, Lot offers the rape mob outside his house his virgin daughters instead of the male angels who happen to be visiting. Not exactly family values. The anti-gay interpretation is an anachronistic, tendentious one. When the Old Testament speaks of homosexuality elsewhere, it lists it alongside unacceptable combinations of cloth, eating the wrong foods, having sex with a woman when she is menstruating, and so on. If we’re to accept the modern applicability of these sins, we’re pretty much all of us irredeemable sinners. If we pick and choose what’s still a sin, we’re hypocrites.

We should read the apostle Paul’s rejection of homosexuality in his letter to the Romans in a similar spirit. Paul chooses the word exchange, which implies straight men who use boys, usually young teenagers, for loveless sex. This was common in Greek and Roman cultures, and Paul condemns abusive power dynamics with catamites as selfish.

A magazine is not the place to discuss the finer points of theology (I’ll save that for the book). But what I can say here, with complete confidence, is that too many Christians convince themselves that there are no questions to be asked, only answers to be recited. Ironically, because most young people in the West can’t even comprehend opposition to same-sex marriage and full equality, and because such acceptance will inexorably increase and spread throughout the world, we may see a time when the only opposition to what is loving and fair will come from an institution that regards itself as an icon of love and fairness. This contradiction will make it impossible to preach the gospel. Christians will be defined by their obstinate clinging to an outdated antipathy.

Recently, I had lunch in downtown Toronto with the publisher of a leading gay Internet site. We talked shop, laughed, drank wine. Family came up, and I showed him some photographs of my wife—the one I am supposed to have cheated on—and he remarked on her good looks. There was a long pause. He turned his phone around and showed me a picture of his husband. Then he looked up: “I was hesitant to show that to you. I was uncomfortable with how you might react.” I felt ashamed and very small.

“You know,” he continued, “you had quite an effect on my life. I’d just come to Toronto—wasn’t even out yet—and I was meeting with a colleague. He went off to the washroom, and I read the newspaper he had with him. It was the Toronto Sun, and you had a column in it that was critical of gay people. Of me, really. It broke my heart.”

The two of us are friends now. But, good Lord, I still have some apologizing to do. Quite a lot, in fact.

Michael Coren (michaelcoren.com) will publish Epiphany: A Christian’s Change of Heart & Mind over Same-Sex Marriage in April.

Graham Roumieu (roumieu.com) is a National Magazine Award winner and a regular contributor to The Walrus. He draws for The Atlantic, the New York Times, and the Wall Street Journal.


  • sanwin

    Oh no, Michael Coren continues to milk his conversion for what it’s worth. Your five minutes of fame are over Michael, move on. BTW, you seem to have take perpetual victimhood lessons from Muslims.

    • Red_Tory

      Careful with the criticism, there, amigo. Can’t you tell from Coren’s over-the-top whinging of the past couple of weeks that he’s is pretty good at dishing it out but not good at all at taking it?

      • Marcella Corroeli Jager

        You 2 seem rather angry – have you honestly asked yourself why?

        • Sigroli

          You seem rather blind and cliché – have you honestly asked yourself why? (They don’t “seem” angry to me — just exasperated and not a little disgusted at someone who has turned out to be no more than a self-serving “Christian” pretender.)

          • Red_Tory

            What Sigroli said.

          • Luigi

            Why be disgusted over the personal decisions of others? Do you define yourself by others?

          • toomanycrayons

            “Why be disgusted over the personal decisions of others? Do you define yourself by others?”-Luigi

            I think you’ve pretty much defined religion there: Innies Vs. Outies.

          • marcellacorroelijager

            Calling someone blind and cliche is a cliche in itself – unfortunate that you stepped right into that one. Why don’t you do yourself and all of us a favour and instead of name-calling, call it like it is – be direct; write a good, well-thought out counter -argument if you disagree with Michael Coren’s points.

          • Sigroli

            Um… pot? kettle?

          • Sigroli
          • toomanycrayons

            “Coren left Catholicism over homosexuality and gay marriage. In the face of cultural juggernauts, people do change their minds. Coren is following the theological path of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. I wouldn’t have picked the contrarian Coren to join the trendiest cause around, but that’s how cultural trends become trendy; people join them.”

            http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/father-raymond-j-de-souza-michael-coren-converts-michael-coren-complains#__federated=1

            Wasn’t Christianity itself a trend at one time? After a little pimping/primping by Constantine (325 AD?) the machine woke up to realise its now slipping grandeur.

          • Hepley

            Yeah, but now that it’s been around for over 2,000 years you might want to think of another name for it.

          • toomanycrayons

            How about, “failure?”

          • Hepley

            That would be a very odd application of the word ‘failure’, by any honest and objective standards. But honesty and objectivity are not to be found in any of your rambling posts.

          • toomanycrayons

            Honesty does not require that one know the truth (George Costanza). By any objective standard the world has not been “saved” by Christ. What, you have objective data revealing a higher success rate at getting Christians into Heaven than Islam has for Muslims, for example? Can you provide the link? You can be honest, but…can you be objective?

          • Hepley

            You want evidence? Wait a while. You’ll get it.

          • Sigroli

            You’re talking to someone who quotes a Seinfeld character. One can assume only that your corespondent doesn’t want to be taken seriously.

          • Hepley

            Seinfeld is the ‘Paradise Lost’ of the 20th Century.

          • toomanycrayons

            “Man is the only animal which thinks it should be doing something else.”-Brian Cox. Physicist.

            I guess you qualify? How about evidence…now. Like I said, Ponzi Scheme.

          • http://www.rabblepress.com/ Omegadk1

            How so? How is he being self serving?

          • toomanycrayons

            I would suggest that ALL believers are…pretending.

          • Hepley

            You know the hearts of all believers? Are you there God? It’s me, Hepley.

          • toomanycrayons

            “You know the hearts of all believers? Are you there God? It’s me, Hepley.”-Hepley

            You can’t prove you’re not pretending so the pretending exists. You may recognise the argument…

          • Hepley

            I would suggest that you’re jealous of the presence of faith in others. Obsessively jealous. That’s sad.

          • toomanycrayons

            “I would suggest that you’re jealous of the presence of faith in others. Obsessively jealous. That’s sad.”-Hepley

            Do you actually believe anything which doesn’t give you that sort of psychological pump-your-own-tires payoff when comparing yourself to others?

          • Hepley

            You know in your heart that’s a question you should really be asking yourself.

          • toomanycrayons

            I don’t think with my heart. How exactly might it pump my tires to be living a purposeless life in an indifferent Universe not designed all around me, anyway? I don’t think you’ve accepted your own insignificance on terms which don’t answer to your anthropocentric biases.

            “Man is the only animal which thinks it should doing something else.”-Brian Cox., Physicist.

            How does that not express your faith? Don’t think about it with your heart, btw. The answers never change in my observation.

          • Hepley

            Read the Catechism. Or don’t. I don’t care what you do.

      • http://www.rabblepress.com/ Omegadk1

        I’m sorry, is he supposed to just accept people spreading lies about his family? About himself? The difference between his “dishing out”, and “not being able to take it” are that he is saying truths, and people are saying lies about him.

        • Red_Tory

          That’s exactly right – except where they are saying truths, and he is saying lies about them.

          • http://www.rabblepress.com/ Omegadk1

            So he is cheating on his wife? His daughter is gay? These are truths? Are you denying that he has had fear threats? As well as threats of violence? Do you really doubt that there is an extreme group of people who act this way?

          • Red_Tory

            Highly unlikely; no; unlikely; the next two I can neither assert nor deny because I have nothing but his say-so, hardly a reliable source at this juncture; and finally, no. But all these are all completely beside the point: Coren’s dishonesty, apart from the obvious — fraudulently posing as a Catholic for money — lies in accusing *all* his critics of the types of extremism you mention which, while real, have nothing whatever to do with Coren’s avoidance and ridicule of the quite legitimate criticisms levelled at him (see articles linked by “Sigroli” elsewhere in this thread).

          • Hepley

            I think he’s lying about the threats to build interest in the story. He’s always been an avid self-promoter. When he first arrived in Canada, he lived in Oshawa (poor man) and came in on the GO train, went about pasting up handbills reading “Michael Coren rules O.K.” in order to create interest in himself as a journalist. Daniel Richler remarked years ago that “Michael Coren loves controversy, but cannot abide negative attention”. This is very perceptive and may explain this latest move away from Catholicism. It’s simply getting a little too hot in the kitchen for authentic Catholics and Christians these days. So Michael (Coren rules o.k.) got the hell outta that kitchen.

          • Red_Tory

            I don’t think he’s lying per se — I think he has deluded himself into actually believing his own shite. The Richler quote is in concert with my statement that he can dish it out but can’t take it.

        • toomanycrayons

          Here’s an example of Coren dealing with Charles McVety’s version of reality:

          http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Politics/ID/2664214688/

          To be fair, there may be some neurological/pathological reason why McVety habitually accuses everyone of his own faults, and/or logical fallacies. On the other hand, he might just be stupid.

          • Sigroli

            “To be fair”?? Coren is an deceitful hypocritical anus, full stop.

          • toomanycrayons

            So, you’re not saying that McVety isn’t stupid, just that anything he says about Coren is true (enough) because you think Coren is a hypocrite and therefore no accusations against him need to be grounded in fact? Isn’t that the problem with black carding/profiling in Toronto? Hey, if it works for you, right? On the other hand, I don’t think it matters which religion Coren chooses, since they’re all a Ponzi. Especially the ones which say they aren’t, deceptively. Like the T-Shirt slogan says, “Confirmation Bias, WORKS4ME!”

          • toomanycrayons

            ‘”To be fair”?? Coren is [a] deceitful hypocrite, full stop.’-Sigroll

            What has that got to do with McVety’s uneven grasp of logic and fact?

          • Sigroli

            Oops. I had thought that the “To be fair” ff. were Coren’s words, not yours, in which latter case my comment made no sense. My mistake.

          • toomanycrayons

            If you haven’t seen the video I recommend it. Deceit and hypocrisy aren’t the words I would use to describe Coren’s contribution; McVety’s, without doubt. Well, either that or the option from my previous post. I’d extend that to his supporters, as well. The worst thing about religion is some of the people it attracts. One fundie calling himself “Evolution is a Hoax” once urged me not to judge Christ by Christians. Uh huh? He then went on to advocate imprisoning Gays for life (Uganda style) but, only executing them if they persisted in their affections while incarcerated; and then only executed after a sensible period of Christian education. Presumably that was to allow them to embrace a one last chance to be like their oppressors. Oh, Joy to the World, eh?

    • http://www.rabblepress.com/ Omegadk1

      He is a writer and media personality. Of course he will continue to write about this. It is an issue. It hasn’t stopped being an issue. Come on, try and see it a bit from his side and have some compassion.

      • sanwin

        Sure. Compassion for this fool who calls his former followers and faith the “Church of the Nasty”.

        • toomanycrayons

          Didn’t Christ start out as/die a Jew and then others simply get carried away with his apparent three day promotion? Lots of “nasty” surrounding that issue down through the foggy ages of competing myths. Coren seems mild in comparison.

          • Hepley

            Jesus Christ repeatedly said he was the Son of God and had come to redeem mankind through his death and resurrection. So, in short, no.

          • toomanycrayons

            “Jesus Christ repeatedly said he was the Son of God and had come to redeem mankind through his death and resurrection.”

            Would you hire a contractor with Christ’s dismal success rate? The real bonus for those benefiting in this life by promoting the ideology is that they get to blame the customer. Like the saying goes, there’s one born every minute…Oh, and (un-reportable) results may vary. Perfect.

          • Hepley

            Once again, you have a very strange way of evaluating success. Would I hire Jesus Christ? I have. He’s my Lord and Saviour.

          • toomanycrayons

            “Would I hire Jesus Christ? I have. He’s my Lord and Saviour.”

            So you say. Did he come with references from successful Heaven placements, or… are you just hoping that hoping works?

          • Hepley

            If you are truly curious about why I accept Jesus Christ as God and Saviour, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Or don’t. I don’t care. Jesus loves you, but I honestly think you’re a dipshit.

          • toomanycrayons

            “… read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Or don’t. I don’t care.”-Hepley

            You all do, that’s part of the religious brief, spreading the word. Otherwise there’d be silence. Yeah, just like when you talk to God. As for Jesus, why not be as critical of him as you are of me. Oh, right…the payoff, maybe. You’re betting a lot on that. Hey, if a few LGBTs get hurt, what difference does that make when you’re trying to save your normatively coercive immortal soul proposition, right? No wonder Jesus doesn’t come back. He’d probably be a disappointment for you all. Honestly.

          • Hepley

            Why would I be critical of God? God’s greatest foolishness is wiser than the greatest human wisdom. I am not sufficiently arrogant to criticize Jesus Christ. How are LGBTyaddayaddawhateverelsetheymakeup getting hurt, exactly? I don’t want anyone to get hurt.

          • toomanycrayons

            “God’s greatest foolishness is wiser than the greatest human wisdom. I am not sufficiently arrogant to criticize Jesus Christ.”-Hepley

            You’ve just criticised God. Which of his foolishnesses is the greatest?

            “I don’t want anyone to get hurt.”

            Does God judge you by your (shared) intentions or their consequences?

          • Hepley

            We’ll all find out exactly how God judges in time, and what the consequences of our actions are. All of us. Me and you.

            Until then, it’s all talk. For you, it’s all preening.

          • toomanycrayons

            For you, it appears to be all denial and ontological fantasy. Speaking of preening, I’ve got on my rented for a party Pope costume this morning. Maybe, like Pope John, I’ll do a bit of self-flagelation for enjoying it too much?

            http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2010/01/how_would_the_pope_selfflagellate.html

            If you google the practise you might I’m told even find other examples online, depending, of course, on how your Net Nanny is configured. Just say’n. Be careful out there. Not everything is presented in a Christian context, or chooses to be, apparently. There is Out, and there is Denial and Denying, to bring us neatly back to the topic. Remember the topic?

          • Hepley

            You’re boring.

          • toomanycrayons

            “You’re boring.”-Hepley

            I am, indeed:

            “Boring is the process of enlarging a hole that is already in the material; it may be a hole made by drilling or in the casting.”

            http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-drilling-and-vs-boring/

            The holes in your professed ontology are either baked-in, or self/other-inflicted? Perfect.

          • Hepley

            It’s nice when a tool admits he’s a tool. Perfect.

          • toomanycrayons

            I’d prefer INSTRUMENT OF GOD, but, obviously, that’s taken. Still, you persist in…identifying the borer with the boring. Hypocrisy, much?

          • Hepley

            You actually manage to be more borin’ than Coren, and that’s no mean feat.

          • toomanycrayons

            Thanks. Boring/boring out ‘holes and the theistic drivel they represent is a hobby, maybe even…a calling? Enjoy the ventilation of your ontological God’s Eye, why don’t you? I believe that one of The Buddha’s instructions on boredom was to look inside yourself, not blame the world. Yeah, it’s your fault. Christ Inc. pretty much says the same thing, doesn’t it? Well, there’s that party animal St. Augustine fretting about stealing one pear…and, now I’m reading a post from you. Pretty much seamless…gibberish. No wonder Coren bailed on you lot.

          • Hepley

            Anti-Catholicism has always been and will remain the siren song of the know-nothings. Now be a good lad and fife Mr. Coren onto the good ship Dullard.

          • toomanycrayons

            I believe the original topic is dealing with an actual rejection of Roman Catholicism as a viable dogma in this century, not much singing going on in Rome. Speaking of paying the fifer, condescendingly encouraging boys to be “good lads” is what the RCC has been having trouble with on the PR/$ side, of late, as well. (Odd the term jumped into your head?) Well, there’s Ireland…GONE! The “good lads” appear to be coming home to roost…

          • Hepley

            Have you any idea how many times the obituary of Christianity, of Catholicism, has been written by people far more intelligent than you? Or are you completely historically illiterate? No matter, here’s a long distance dedication I’d like to send out to you, and your entire brotherhood of preening twats. I should warn you, though: spoiler alert! “And I say unto thee, That thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”Boom shakka-lak!

          • toomanycrayons

            God seems to be having trouble getting your message through. Anyway, here’s a response to the non-message from Heaven Inc.:

            “Have you any idea how many times the obituary of Christianity, of Catholicism, has been written by people far more intelligent than you? “-Hepley

            Yes, I have, actually. And, a growing list of those less intelligent who defend it.

          • Hepley

            You’re making the very common mistake of judging the vitality of the Catholic Church and Christianity by what’s happening in the wealthy, materialistic and decadent developed world, where only about 7% of its nominal adherents live. You’re ignoring the rest of the world, where the message of Christ is spreading like wildfire. Those parts of the world and those people are beneath your notice. You’re making this very common mistake because you have a very common mind. They would make a movie of your life entitled ‘A Common Mind’, but it would bore everyone to death, and then where would we be?

          • toomanycrayons

            “You’re ignoring the rest of the world, where the message of Christ is spreading like wildfire. “-Hepley

            Market share? How Don Draper. You’re making the McDonalds argument: 4 billion served. That must mean the food is good for you, right? The RCC is failing in the West because RCC money goes farther in depressed economies. Yeah, souls have a price. That’s part of the RCC history, too.

          • Hepley

            You’re becoming even more incoherent. I suggest you get some sleep.

          • toomanycrayons

            You find what I say incoherent? No surprise there. You think people rise from the dead! Why should I be the least concerned with your inability to comprehend the obvious when I say it? It’s like you ARE asleep as a normal function of your intellectual existence. Well, that’s what creation narratives are anyway, just a dream which becomes lie when you stuff it down some kid’s throat. Oh, right, that’s another thing the Irish don’t like…

          • toomanycrayons

            Not as common as you imagine, according to a recent Pew survey:

            http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/

            On the other hand, you seem to be drawing a great deal of significance from a religious dogma performing better than McDonalds, even if it’s only offering legitimacy to corrupt Sub-Saharan despots. Do you want fries with God, or just the money in off-shore accounts? Hey, the RCC got through WWII, and began its revival, by selling out to the Fascists. If it ain’t broke, why fix it:

            “The RCC was essential to Mussolini’s getting into power and staying there: In 1922, the Vatican ordered RCC hierarchs in Italy not to support the Catholic party, thereby ensuring Mussolini’s victory; in 1923 the Vatican ordered the Catholic priest who led the Popolari Party in opposing Mussolini’s bid for dictatorship to resign, thereby ensuring Mussolini’s success; and in 1924, the Vatican ordered all clergy to resign from the Catholic party, thereby ensuring the survival of Mussolini’s government, which had been on the verge of collapse after the assassination of Matteotti.”

            http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40175

            Looks like, as once was famously said, this is the beginning/continuance of a beautiful friendship, Africa. Beware the spiritual carpetbaggers…bearing insubstantial gifts, for you, and cash for your leaders.

          • Hepley

            You know what’s good and bad for everyone, don’t you? No, that’s not even a bit condescending and delusional. Man, just imagine how much money you could make and how much good you could do if you could ever tear yourself away from comments sections, where you grow increasingly inebriated and incoherent from inhaling the aroma of the flatulence of your own thoughts.

          • toomanycrayons

            What puzzles me is your taste for inhaling whatever it is. Anyway, I’ve been suggesting that religion is on average a positive social lie, much in the manner outlined by Otto Rank, and Max Ernst (“The Denial of Death’). Jordan Peterson, U of T Psychology Head, also cautions against a society without such normative myths. In his opinion, people in groups without reliable narratives are more likely to become well, unsociable…even Evil. Look at the Middle East. Well, just look at what’s happened to you by simply having your ontological “Lie” challenged. You’re consigning people to Hell, and commenting on God’s “foolishness.” Imagine if you actually had any power to do anything. It’s probably better, as Peterson suggests, to just let you get on with your in-group mumbles and incantations; let you play “house” with God. At least, it might keep you busy, until you die. Forever.

          • Hepley

            Why are you wasting your time with me? There are Africans who need to be guided by your totally original and brave (HA HA HA) outlook before they make a foolish mistake and embrace Christ. Go and address them, Bwana!

          • toomanycrayons

            Clearly, I’m not wasting my time with you. (130 wpm, btw ) You keep trying to justify your faith to someone with no faith gene. The irony is to die for. And, as an added bonus, you’re becoming more and more like the people Michael Coren says you are.

        • http://www.rabblepress.com/ Omegadk1

          Are you a Catholic or Christian? Do you realize you just called him a “fool”. The bible says to NEVER call anyone a fool. Also, if you are keeping up with what’s happening, he is calling the extreme right,” church of the nasty”. That just seems like an accurate description if those who are sending him death/violence threats, and accusing him off cheating on his wife… Saying his daughter is gay… What do you think an accurate description would be?

          • Hepley

            I would like to see evidence of even one of these “threats”. I’ve looked at the comments to Coren’s Twitter feed, and I’ve see disagreement and criticism, but I’ve seen no threats or even petty personal attacks. I think Coren’s lying about that stuff, to be blunt about it, and I think it’s all in the service of self-promotion.

          • toomanycrayons

            “I think Coren’s lying about that stuff, to be blunt about it, and I think it’s all in the service of self-promotion.”

            Why arguably then have/set a lower standard for your own religious beliefs? I’ve read the Bible/Qur’an. No sense for me that they’re not just instruments of selective self-promotion rather than revealed truth. How likely is that, really? So, 14 billion years or so, now…here’s the manual? Have you ever tried to follow assemble-it-yourself instructions that come from China? They’re better, to be blunt about it.

            Now, if you wanted to start a franchise assembling society to your own specification and benefit, reveal truth is obviously the way to go. It means whatever you say it means.

          • Hepley

            That doesn’t address my contention that Coren’s lying about threats.

          • toomanycrayons

            It does address the apparent hypocrisy underlying your accusation though. Let him who is without hypocrisy cast the first contention?

  • Marcella Corroeli Jager

    How lovely to have transformed yourself and even lovelier to have come out publicly about it!

  • Luigi

    Brave and a good example how none of us is static and that God’s voice is not muzzled by fear and hatred.

    • toomanycrayons

      “Brave and a good example how none of us is static and that God’s voice is not muzzled by fear and hatred.”

      I’m not afraid or hateful and I can’t hear it, muzzled or otherwise. Is it like that bell in The Polar Express story for kids who never grow up? No, that’s Peter Pan. Darn, it’s punishingly hard to keep these faerie tales straight. Indeed. (“Ha ha.”-Nelson Muntz )

  • toomanycrayons

    I think Coren underestimates the existential need transcendental theists have for hating the flesh isolated from reproductive/fertility imagery: In the world, but not of it. The soul-factory model of this “experiment in conduct” depends entirely on not endorsing non-reproductive sex. The Sin that cannot be forgiven is the mocking of the essential premise of the religions concerned: Heaven, for the worthy…soul. No one gets out of here alive, without one, to riff on some ancient Morrison imagery.

    Interestingly, one of the earliest writings, The Epic of Gilgamesh, included the phrase (pardon the memory/translation): “Ah, Gilgamesh, why do you run in all directions? The life you seek you shall never find. When the gods created Man, they gave him Death; Life they kept for themselves.”

    Sumerians, is there anything they didn’t know? Stop running, Michael. Like the CBC’s P&P says, “You’re where you need to be.” Or, as the physicist, Brian Cox has said, “Man is the only animal which thinks it should be doing something else.” I think your love direction is the only one. Dump the God stuff. It’s just you trying to turn the Universe into your dad’s London cabbie map with a probably inherited detail-obsessive nature. You are never, will never be, not…HERE.

    • Shelley Mackay

      Dude. Wordy.

      • toomanycrayons

        Have you tried Twitter?

    • Red_Tory

      I think that should be perhaps “notenoughcrayons” ??

      • toomanycrayons

        Underestimation was the point of my comment. Try again perhaps??

        • Sigroli

          Feel free. Your posts give the B.S. meter a good workout.

          • toomanycrayons

            Thanks. Someone has to push back, right?

  • Mike Houghtling

    It appears, Michael, you have discovered your notoriety was due to your giving people a heightened sense of righteousness by expressing what they wanted hear in ways well beyond their own abilities. Not because of all the time and effort you have put into discovering a reasoned understanding of your faith. Your ‘evolution’ is seen by these people as a betrayal. You have given them cause to question the unquestionable and they do not know another way to deal with it then to attack you and your family. You seem to have found another group of supporters who will embrace you thanks to your mastery of the language when saying what they want to hear.

    • toomanycrayons

      “You seem to have found another group of supporters who will embrace you thanks to your mastery of the language when saying what they want to hear.”

      “You have given them cause to question the unquestionable and they do not know another way to deal with it [other than] to attack you and your family.”

      I think “Michael” would insist on the edit, considering that it’s his mastery of language you’re fawning over, not his, or his current admirers’ journey, seemingly?

  • MrJsw111 .

    What a load of crap. I tried hard but couldn’t get to the end of Coren’s navel-gazing reflection. Me. Me. Me. Me. That is what Michael Coren is all about. The part of about changing sexual orientation was probably the stupidest part of the article. Countless thousands of people have effectively dealt with and removed their same sex attractions. Nobody is suggesting that gays should be forced into reparative therapy. But there are many, many people who have unwanted same sex attractions. So why can’t they exercise their freedom and pursue therapy to help deal SSA? It is currently against the law in some jurisdiction in North America. People have freedom to be gay, so why don’t they have the freedom to stop being gay if they want to?

    And one last thing. Coren rolled out the old chestnut that when the old crony generation dies off people will laugh that anyone ever opposed gay marriage. Wrong! Gay marriage will be just like abortion. Abortion is bitterly contested 45 years after its introduction. The population is evenly split. Same thing will happen with gay marriage. It will also be fiercely contested for decades, unless people come to their sense. Wish I had more time, because Coren made about 20 mistakes in this one article, would have been nice to pick them out.

    • slavitch

      Abortion is bitterly contested? You’ve got to be joking. Even the most conservative federal government in the history of this country won’t touch it with a ten foot pole, and that’s after a decade of power.

      Abortion is settled, gay marriage is settled. Go away and die.

      • toomanycrayons

        “Abortion is settled, gay marriage is settled. Go away and die.”

        Politically, yes. Biologically, inevitably. What Harper won’t allow is the use of theological argument to undermine his own power. Historically, the Christian message in particular, summoned people to overthrow oppressors and, inevitably, replace them, ironically becoming the very thing they most ardently believed they hated. As Preston Manning has said of Harper, “Words don’t mean anything to Stephen.” Indeed. The sad state of the method these days is seen in its chosen targets: the socially weak, marginalised, recently-arrived and maligned.

        RE: the abortion issue. I once asked a fundie/spark of life advocate why, since everyone had to die it mattered when? Given a recent deadly tsunami which killed thousands, presumably even the unborn, it didn’t seem to matter how. The response was incoherent. I suppose I wasn’t taking into account qualifying for Heaven. Like getting to the Stanley Cup Final, many are called, few are chosen; besides them…goes without saying,

        • john s

          Was the ‘fundie’ a child? I don’t see you getting a confused answer from anyone else. The when doesn’t matter, the how does. “thou shalt not kill” . I almost feel stupid now fro replying to what was obviously a bullshite premise.

          • toomanycrayons

            “Was the ‘fundie’ a child? I don’t see you getting a confused answer from anyone else. The when doesn’t matter, the how does. “thou shalt not kill” . I almost feel stupid now fro replying to what was obviously a bullshite premise.”-john s

            I think the premise that life is sacred needs to be justified, especially in the conditions it regularly encounters. If, as one link here indicates, all this birthing and dying is part of some great design surely the rough edges need to be addressed. Everything dies. Conception is a death sentence. Oh, but wait…we have the clown car of God’s Design just entering the circus ring? I guess that explains everything: You’re conceived so that you can qualify for enough points not to have to live here anymore, except for the 20-30% of the known pregnancies which Nature flushes away as a cost of doing business, badly? Oddly, those who promote this fantasy are those who most benefit from it in this life. Now, there’s a revelation for you.

            “Set against the swiftly changing social landscape of England, the document seeks to remind the church of the virtue of chastity and the need to regulate sexual appetites in accordance with right reason, the revelation of Scripture and God’s design for mankind.”

            http://anglicanink.com/article/homosexuality-remain-sin-church-england

            The premise having the most difficulty is the one which passes over the part of the Grand Design For Mankind which in 2004 sucked 300,000 people (some pregnant ) into the Indian Ocean, the only net benefit being the subsequent improvement in the taste and abundance of bottom-feeding sea life. Some design.

      • MrJsw111 .

        Abortion is a settled issue in your feeble mind. In real life … not so much. I believe the House just passed legislation limiting abortion. Half the people object to abortion and gay marriage and that is pretty much the way it will stay. Judges rammed through gay marriage in an exercise in undemocratic thuggery. But tens of millions don’t accept that gay people are married, regardless of what a bunch fascist judges think. It will probably come to mean government marriage, opposed to a real marriage.

        • slavitch

          “the House”? What House you talking about?

          In Canada abortion is settled, as is gay marriage. Done.

          Not quite so in the US. In the US, both are waiting for some horrible old people to grow old and die. It would be there already if it wasn’t for the uneducated theocratic south.

          • MrJsw111 .

            In the 1970s they said abortion would be a settled matter when that generation died off, but of course it wasn’t. Just because Canada has a touch of fascism and bans abortion protests and jails people for quietly talking to people heading for an abortion… doesn’t mean it is settled in the hearts and minds of Canadians, where depending on how the question is phrased, 50%+ people would like to see limitations on abortion. Dictatorship in North Korea is also a settled matter, because objectors are dealt with so harshly. Same kind of thing, to a lesser degree, in Canada. with respect to abortion.

            As for gay marriage, it astounds me that people believe that Steve and Elroy, a couple of sodomites who enjoy exchanging perversions with each other, could ever be considered married. And they’ll even let them buy a designer baby from one of the commercial breeders out there now practising their “trade.” That does astound me. Being gay has rightly been considered a perversion for almost the entirety of human history. Nothing but nothing changed, but suddenly people started buying into the agitprop of the gay mafia. Now we have gay marriage.

          • toomanycrayons

            “Being gay has rightly been considered a perversion for almost the entirety of human history.”

            So have a lot of things. Maybe Harper’s right, the less said about it the better. Who knows, something you might like to do in the privacy of your own home could get you some demerit points. Like Bart said, when another character talked about walking in on his parents: “It’s better than walking in on them when they’re alone.” Be careful what you wish for…

          • slavitch

            Sodomites? Die, you hateful troll. Just die.

          • MrJsw111 .

            I take it from this reply that you also are a sodomite?

          • slavitch

            As in one that has partaken in sodomy, including oral sex?

            You haven’t? Oh, you poor old dear. Now die.

      • john s

        Abortion is settled? You do know how our current law regarding abortion came to pass don’t you? No, of course you don’t or you would not claim the issue was settled. Wait, is it opposite day today?

    • toomanycrayons

      “But there are many, many people who have unwanted same sex attractions.”-MrJsw111 .

      Enough to make it Normal?

  • winteryblackknight

    Whenever Jesus discussed sexual mores he raised the bar from the Mosaic Law. Re: divorce He rejected it. If you even look with lust at a woman you commit adultery with your mind. He spoke of marriage in the context only of a man and woman becoming one flesh. In a society governed by the Mosaic Law there was no need to speak out against homosexual acts. The Law was clear and in force. Jesus does talk about denying the flesh which would apply to all forms of sexual acts. He is also said He was not removing one word of the Law but to fulfill it. Christ also used the fig tree scenario to point out we must produce good fruit from our actions. This would exclude actions the sole purpose is to derive pleasure.
    Coren is an intelligent person. There is no excuse to draw the conclusions he has made from scripture.
    To Coren love must include sex and sex is essential to living. He thinks one can be sanctified and yet crave the flesh for the sake of the flesh. He has forgotten innocence and it’s beauty.
    He has rejected the teaching authority of the Church, sacred tradition, and in some parts revelation and substituted his own judgment. He seems to see Christ as a reflection of himself. He ignores the doctrine of the cross. He thinks because Church teaching on sex is out of season it must be rejected. He will have to answer one day for his poor judgment.

    • mukwah

      You replied to my comment in a national post story. Something about attitudes and not reproducing. I just had to tell you that I have three kids who i am raising to value all peoples regardless of who they choose to love, and all my like-minded friends are raising multiple (and great) kids too.

      • toomanycrayons

        Someday you’ll be punished for your good judgement, if the revelation-fundies have their imaginary way. They’re trying to turn non-reproducive love into the New Polio. There “ain’t no cure for” their problem either: Ontological Dysphoria.

    • toomanycrayons

      “He will have to answer one day for his poor judgment.”-winteryblackknight

      I like your synopsis. Yeah, he’s pretty much run out of ways to be a revelation theist, no doubt. And then, characteristic of the genre, you go all Wrath of God on him. The other side of your agenda is the “bonus points” you envisage getting for your own compliance.

      Albert Ponzi was raised a Catholic. He didn’t fabricate his scheme out of his imagination. He saw the whole thing writ large in the Roman Catholic hope machine he lived in. His genius was in showing people they wouldn’t have to wait, just find a bigger fool, to keep the game rolling.

      Like the Physicist, Brian Cox, has said, “Man is the only animal which thinks it should be doing something else.” Personal carbon sequestration is the only “answer one day for” accounting we’ll ever have to do. You’re just making up the rest, or copying it to get your own speculative “me-too” payoff.

      Bernie Madoff specialised in advising people with those proclivities. All hope-based, reality denial religions do, too. Given that they fabricate ontologies and impose them on observable reality they are essentially nihilistic. In its purest form you get death wish, See you in Paradise! reductionism. In its best form you have Coren suggesting we all just cling together.

      Sorry, right? Hugging is no way to RULE THE WORLD. My favourite Pope is Jeremy Irons (“The Borgias” ). If you haven’t heard him command, derisively, a newly submissive, formerly antagonistic, fellow Christian to “Unburden your soul.” (to save his worldly skin), I don’t think you truly appreciate the mechanics of faith.

      • winteryblackknight

        Well if one is going to claim to be a follower of Christ one must accept what He said about life and afterlife. Our time in this world is a time of mercy, a time to work out our salvation. We have a soul and after death we face a judgement Mat 25. As for your not so humble opinion you talk as if you have certain and complete knowledge of death and afterlife. We both know that no one has such knowledge. But there is much evidence in terms of testimony out there of an afterlife. You just choose to ignore it.

        • toomanycrayons

          Again, I think you are completely aware of the implications of your faith. You just choose to ignore them selectively.

          “But there is much evidence in terms of testimony out there of an afterlife.”

          Really? The last thing we heard from Steve Jobs was, “Wow!” Nothing much since. Why, what have you heard?

          I think there is certainly “much evidence” to support the benefits of socially organised consensus. The case might even be made that ostracising LGBTs could offer a net social benefit. As Anthony Bourdain mentioned in a recent show on Madagascar, social bonding usually ends up meaning that something has to die. In that case, a cow; socially, in this case, the LGBT exceptions to The Rule of Souls. Scape-goating is the less pretentious name for it. Old habits die hard, too.

          “As for your not so humble opinion you talk as if you have certain and complete knowledge of death and afterlife. ”

          I believe your chosen mechanism there is called, Shaming. What you actually find objectionable is the affront to your own adopted, whole cloth, “not so humble opinion” about the nature of The Universe: It’s ALL about Us. Astronomers don’t even know what 96% of the Universe is made of at this point. Surely, deferring to Iron Age speculations rather than ignoring them can’t be a better, even equal way. Certainly not a way deserving of the appellation, “certain and complete knowledge.”

          If you don’t have “certain and complete knowledge” yourself, then you and everyone else is simply endorsing the things which Coren finds offensive in Roman Catholicism, the way that Ponzi, and Madoff, knew would motivate: Show me the money, now. Does the Universe care what we do with our genitals? Not likely.

  • Pingback: Friday Links (baby leopard edition!) | Font Folly()

  • patrick oconnor

    I,m praying for your soul Michael. You caught the virus.

    • NoMoreFalseGods

      Man do you ever comment on anything that is your business? Blatty Patty can go to the hell of his choice.

      • patrick oconnor

        I like that name Blatty Patty Thanks. Why dont you mind your own manners missy!!

        • patrick oconnor

          And by the way miss LGBQTyrant it is open season on anyone who defies the Catholic church!

          • patrick oconnor

            he could of just went away quietly but no he wants to write another book why Catholics are wrong and homosexuals are right. so therefore he has to undergo some criticism for his choices. Its a free world missy and I will not be silenced!

          • toomanycrayons

            “Its a free world missy and I will not be silenced!”

            Sure you will: Death? Anyway, there is NO TALKING! in Heaven because everyone there thinks the same. That’s why they get there, allegedly. Maybe I should check that on wikipedia…

          • Hepley

            I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, toomanycrayons, but the counter-culture became the culture decades ago. You may imagine yourself standing defiantly on the barricades, kicking against the pricks and gallantly speaking the truth to power, but the way you think is the new dogma. You are the establishment. You are the conformist. And those who refuse to think the same as you do are the ones taking it in the neck.

          • toomanycrayons

            Be the rebel, Hep. Be the Victim. I insist. Where do you want the nails hammered in? Christian dogma is exploited by those seeking to benefit from the aspirational delusions of the self/other-oppressed. Sure, it’s a useful social mechanism, but, it’s really just a Ponzi-franchise designed to keep the Rick Warrens and Charles McVetys of the world plump and secure. Why, as George Carlin pointed out, does God “always need money?” It’s a long way to Heaven, Hep. It’s best that the preachers live in comfort while you and those who follow make that journey to…Neverland?

          • Hepley

            Everything you write about Christianity is based misunderstanding, which makes it all illegitimate and unworthy of comment.

          • toomanycrayons

            “Everything you write about Christianity is based misunderstanding, which makes it all illegitimate and unworthy of comment.”-Hepley

            Everything YOU write about Christianity is similarly compromised, then, but…I find it interesting. Whether you do or don’t mind, I’ll continue to comment. I mean, God just SPOKE the once, but I’ve still got questions, especially of His variously conflicted and/or mutually-exclusive interpreters. See you in Paradise?

          • Hepley

            Answers to all your questions are available if you care to learn them. The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church is available online at vatican.va. You strike me as the type more interested in grandstanding while trafficking in facile and mundane but currently very trendy falsehoods than actually finding answers to the questions you pretend to have, but it’s there any time you want to read it.

          • toomanycrayons

            “You strike me as the type more interested in grandstanding while trafficking in facile and mundane but currently very trendy falsehoods than actually finding answers to the questions you pretend to have but it’s there any time you want to read it.”-Hepley

            I detect in your convoluted, passive-aggressive language a lack of sincere interest in my outcomes. You are a credit to your faith.

          • Hepley

            Thanks! But just imagine how rotten I’d be if I weren’t a Catholic.

          • toomanycrayons

            Imagine?

          • Hepley

            Thanks! Just imagine how rotten I’d be if I weren’t a Catholic.

          • toomanycrayons

            Imagining. There it is again.

          • toomanycrayons

            Everything you write about Christianity is [biased?] misunderstanding, which makes it all illegitimate and unworthy of comment.”-Hepley

            Why is your bias better than mine? Oh, right…it’s Confirm[ed]ation Bias. I get it:

            Confirmation Bias
            WORKS4ME!

          • Hepley

            Not talking bias here. Talking dogma. Christian dogma, Catholic dogma, is fixed. You can look it up if you possess sufficient intellectual curiosity. I don’t care if you do or you don’t. But what you don’t get to do, without a challenge, is present facile misrepresentations of Christian teachings and position, either deliberately or through ignorance, and then triumphantly poke holes in them like so many straw men. Got it, Ponzie-invoker?

        • NoMoreFalseGods

          You answer your own comments, geez you are a long winded goof. I like Mike now that he’s telling it like it is in with the Papist aka sick baby stealing, wrongfully inprisoning, perverted, zombie eaters.

          • Hepley

            There it is! The good old-fashioned Catholic-hating, know-nothing bigoted hatred that made this country great. Used to go by names like ‘Methodism’, ‘Calvinism’ or ‘Presbyterianism’, but now those churches are gone, though the hatred of Catholics remains. It’s all they’ve got anymore. And why’d their denominations disappear? Because they ‘modernized’, they went with the flow, the last thing that churches do before they go into the dustbin of history.

          • NoMoreFalseGods

            All organized religions are con jobs, some are just more evil than others. Go worship an idol, or eat a wafer.

          • Hepley

            Up yer arse, proddy!

          • NoMoreFalseGods

            Not a chance as I don’t hang around freaks in frocks, you on the other hand must be well versed in Confessional rugby.

          • Hepley

            You mean you eschew the company of LGBT? Oh dear, we’ve got a “hater” on our hands.

  • patrick oconnor

    pretty soon God is going to write a book about all our lives! Dear Lord another book michael? Its getting quite pathetic

  • Gary Rose

    It is unfortunate that most of us are not born enlightened; ti would make life so much easier. Good for you Michael for your ability to constantly examine yourself and evolve. Above all, even though you struggled along the way, your honesty prevailed. I imagine those who criticize and judge you are projecting their inner struggles on you; it’s really about them, not you. As I’ve said before, I may not always agree with you, but I do ultimately believe you have a good heart.

    • Red_Tory

      By his honesty, would you be referring to the honesty he displayed in fraudulently posing as a Catholic speaker for money?

      • Gary Rose

        I think Michael has suffered enough for that. There is always a lesson to be learned from what we do, especially when we put ourselves in the public arena. Michael has come clean, has had his public lashing, and now it is time for those whose feelings are hurt to move on to more important issues than Michael Coren.

        • Red_Tory

          That’s fine, except that he’s still whining and blah-blah-blah-ing about it on Facebook and Twitter.

          • Gary Rose

            And you’re not whining? If Coren bothers you so much the best thing you can do is ignore him. Being controversial is Michael’s forte. You are almost complicit by vocally disagreeing with him. You are giving him what he wants – an audience of whiners who he can write about. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

          • Red_Tory

            I’m not whining; I’m playing whack-a-mole.

  • NoMoreFalseGods

    Keep going Mike and you’ll be an agnostic soon, congrats!

    • toomanycrayons

      I keep seeing Don Draper falling in silhouette. God is something we made up to sell great seats in Heaven and keep the best seats here for ourselves? No, that can’t be. Don, say it isn’t so…

  • Sigroli

    Coren left the Catholic Church because it teaches that same-sex attractions are disordered and that homosexual acts are sinful.

    He went to the Anglicans… http://anglicanink.com/article/homosexuality-remain-sin-church-england

    • toomanycrayons

      “Comments for this thread are now closed.”

      Unfortunatley, God, Himself, was not able to post His unedited Opinion due to the cutoff. Too bad. We haven’t heard from Him in a while. Well, most of us, anyway. Oh, let’s just make something up…

  • MrJsw111 .

    This gay issue is troubling, but also fantastically interesting. Canada has had gay marriage for a decade now. It is pretty much a hate crime to have any opinion except the official gay position on most anything. Gays rights and gay pride are about as entrenched as you are going to get. But I note two interesting tidbits. It is still very rare to see gays showing affection to one another in movies or TV programs. Everybody knows same sex physicality is intrinsically disgusting to most people. So they avoid showing us. They know nothing would kill a movie faster than a gay sex scene. I am sure there are some shown out there, but not in mainstream entertainment.

    The other interesting part is the complete muzzling of any person, thought, or idea that doesn’t affirm the gay lifestyle. Ever wonder why that is? I think it is because of shame. Gay people know what they are doing isn’t normal. They have deep shame, and the insistence on total affirmation is a way for them to deal with that shame.

    • slavitch

      You don’t watch much TV, do you?

      • MrJsw111 .

        I watch a lot of TV. Admittedly, I’d rather stick a needle in my eye than watch flaming gays prance around the screen. But I do watch. Never see gay physicality on mainstream shows… i.e. shows not conjured up for the gay crowd. Everybody knows it is sickening to see. So they leave it alone.

        • toomanycrayons

          “Everybody knows it is sickening to see.”-MrJsw111

          Not having seen any myself, I’ll simply defer to your broader viewer experience then, shall I?

    • toomanycrayons

      “Everybody knows same sex physicality is intrinsically disgusting to most people.”-MrJsw111

      Just how much time do you actually spend imaging your wrinkled, over-weight, straight neighbours grunting and moaning on each other, by contrast? I’m sorry, I have to go clean this monitor after even typing that. You may feel different. Hey, imagine them all you want. Who am I to say, NO!

      • MrJsw111 .

        Never mentioned imagining anything. Non sequitur. Gays are shamed-based people, and that is why they insist that 100% of people respect their sham marriages.

        • toomanycrayons

          “Never mentioned imagining anything. Non sequitur. Gays are shamed-based people, and that is why they insist that 100% of people respect their sham marriages.”

          “Everybody knows same sex physicality is intrinsically disgusting to most people.”-MrJsw111

          Non sequitur? Sounds like you “imagining” to me. How many times have you actually witnessed what “disgusts” you, and everybody you speak for? More worrisome still is how you get the information about your straight neighbours which “delights/non-disgusts” you? Do the Police know?

          You appear to be insisting that 100% of people exclusively respect heterosexual marriages. Or else, what? Will you…shame them?

    • donniemcleod15

      Yes, it is hate to choose to hate people who have no choice about their being gay. They have no choice. You have choice.

      • toomanycrayons

        “They have no choice. You have choice.”-donniemcleod15

        If people have no choice but to be attracted to what attracts them do others then not have any choice but to be repelled by what repels them? If one group can choose why not the other? Perhaps disgust and revulsion have a neurological basis as well. The social calculation is simply which path offers the most net benefit to the whole: exclusion vs. inclusion? I don’t think “God’s design for mankind” or similarly motivated arguments are persuasive, just another way of removing exceptions to reductive world views. Why can’t we all be different? Perhaps different is just harder to control, emotionally or bureaucratically. That’s neurological, too, apparently.

        • donniemcleod15

          Visceral hate of a person because they are by their nature gay is a choice. The bad choice is defaulting to our more basic of two thinking processes. It is the thinking process that is proof we evolved from fish. It is too fast, too rational and resolute to confront more modern threats like sabre tooth cats. It is useful when about 1 of the millions of our siblings was not going to be eaten by a larger fish in our first year of life. It is bad choice to default to this thinking process. It is better to choose inquiry and reason on the road to liberalism and not choose the road to Christian conservatism.

          • toomanycrayons

            “It is better to choose inquiry and reason on the road to liberalism and not choose the road to Christian conservatism.”

            I think an affinity for the effects of religion in many is neurologically based, both positively and negatively. To suppose otherwise is to ignore…that there ARE religions. I don’t think it can be denied that hierarchical social ordering has been a great asset to our species. Religion was a prime mover in that direction. and, it didn’t even have to be true to work, just hierarchical. Any nature show offers that phenomenon across many species. Ours acquired better nutrition, sophistication and selection based on being able to prosper in that ordering. Religion, hierarchy and agriculture seem to have appeared all around the same time. Coincidence?

            You’re describing “visceral hate” as a throwback, but, clearly it is still being selected for, offering benefits, likely genetic advantages, across our species. Visceral hate/visceral love: what is the difference at the neurological/biological level?

            I’m raising the question, Is there any net societal advantage to cooly, intellectually set about marginalising LGBTs (anybody) in a cost/benefit manner? While many of the visible McVety types are clearly deranged, the war beneath the surface is, as I see it, somewhat less emotional. The fight is to preserve the soul-factory machinery making the myth of eternal life logically consistent. Not true, just logical.

            I don’t think that the tendency I’ve described of seeking obedience to a reductive ontology is a choice. Obviously then, neither would the existential hatred/aversion which sustained it be unnatural. Christians therefore, even conservative ones, are not less human or even more accountable for that.

            I’d add that most Christians I know are not consumed with a visceral hatred for LGBTs. But, I do think rejecting the LGBTs is crucial to maintaining an Afterlife for what they call the soul. That, for transcendentally religious people, is the real issue, not, as expressed by the McVety camp, disgust.

          • donniemcleod15

            We agree on many thinks. One significant difference is the value you give authoritarianism. Plato observed that some of us need a god to be good while others do not.

            “For though a man should be a complete unbeliever in the being of gods; if he also has a native uprightness of temper, such persons will detest evil in men; their repugnance to wrong disinclines them to commit wrongful acts; they shun the unrighteous and are drawn to the upright.”
            — Plato, acknowledging that atheists can lead an honest life, quoted from Jim Herrick, Against the Faith (1985), p. 22

            I will put a number on those amongst us who need a god to be good, 1%. I will put a label on those amongst us who need a god to be good, psychopath. For the rest of empathy and regret are our innate species governors that keep us from slaughtering each other on a sustained basis. If the Church needs sustained slaughter in attracts, enriches and empowers the psychopaths amongst us. As liberalism is inquiry conservatism is to inquisition.

          • toomanycrayons

            I’m not sure that authoritarianism covers entirely what I’m saying about religion: It’s the natural/habituated/selected-for social repository of that part of the mind/neurology which fears death. In order to preserve the ability to function daily, inevitable death is turned into something else. In the case of transcendent beliefs, an eternal soul. It represents the necessity of imagining something which escapes death and is manifested through birth. To function as an authoritarian mechanism, the ways by which the lucky souls get elected to Heaven are various, and largely serve, as your comment suggests, the values of the authorities, of any given cultural moment. One of those values/prejudices has been to denigrate all flesh not engaged virtuously in the production of the soul meme. LGBTs are the target in this thread, and those which defend them, or question their persecution. I think your 1% number is low, and misguided in attributing the agenda simply to psychopathology. I don’t think LGBTs can simply choose not to be, nor do I think that those opposed to them are entirely responsible for their attitudes. They have them because those traits have been selected for, through centuries of positive social feedback, an its subsequent social/biological success. I don’t think that religion is entirely cultural, so its effect isn’t simple Lamarckism (Hey, it’s enjoying a revival), but heritable through conferred, biological advantage. Atheists manifesting those traits which conferred benefits on the religious would be advanced as well. Being able to pretend to believe whatever the authorities believe is an asset for the religious and atheistic alike. If you observe the excesses of ISIS, they seem to be devoting a great deal of effort to sorting out the pretenders. In any organisation, floaters, to use a sports term, are always an issue. I’ve even asked outwardly religious people to think of some way to prove they actually believe in God. Let’s just say that ISIS gets more proofs offered, more enthusiastically than I do. “Because I say so,” doesn’t seem to cut much mustard with them.

          • donniemcleod15

            I will read your response. I have Huntingtons Disease. I faced my Death 10 years ago. Science says I can delay the onset. I see Death as a door. It does not matter who is on the other side of the door. Angel or Devil I don’t care. The people I choose to spent time with in my life either push me towards that door or are in my way. I prefer those who get in my way. I have to be worthy.

          • toomanycrayons

            Huntington’s detectability apparently raises the ethical question of at what age to tell a carrier. Transcendental religions duck that question regarding biological death by training the young to see their existence as a morality play which never ends. How it goes on forever is the part that is elective, so the narrative goes. That strategy is excused by the spectre of all Hell breaking loose if people actually think life ends. One Buddhist scholar I came across pointed out that Buddha actually misunderstood the people he based his notions on. Not being rich, powerful aristocrats, like him, they were pretty much accepting of their fate, wanted their kids to do well, but didn’t particularly mind dying when life got too hard. Just think, if people like Buddha, Christ, Mohammad, etc., would have simply paid a little more attention, a lot of unnecessary suffering might have been avoided. Life is bad enough, right? Then you get my favourite “Christian” message delivered, allegedly, by the general having just breached the last Albigensian stronghold containing some non-heretics, as well as Cathars: “Kill them all. God will know His own.” Hey, if you truly believe, Wendy, everything is true. I think maybe Peter Pan said that. Or, Walt Disney?

          • donniemcleod15

            Fear of existential threats. We evolved from fish so our thinking is sometime just like a fish confronted by a larger fish. This thinking process is too fast, too rational and too resolute to confront more modern threats. For that our species evolved to be collaborative. From the big stupid sabre tooth cat’s perspective with his huge incisors 5 of us were 5 opportunities. The cat did not do gestalt math that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. The cat is extinct. Other predators were more careful when there were 5 of us were out looking for prey. This is our species competitive advantage. The individual is nothing with out 4 buddies. This micro grouping does not scale to more than 6.

          • toomanycrayons

            “The individual is nothing with out 4 buddies. This micro grouping does not scale to more than 6.”

            Sports analogy, right? How then to explain the NFL, Tennis, Squash, Soccer and pro Cycling, all with different survival success models? My particular interest is in Cycling where “enemies” work together to maximise individual results. Fish do that, too; even plants, apparently.

          • donniemcleod15

            The sports that represent reality are hockey and socker. The sport that represent the artificial construct called society is US football.

            Reality is not the individual. The individual is nothing, just walking meat relative to the sabre tooth cat. That is why we are afraid when alone. We are not to be alone.

          • donniemcleod15

            I did not pick the number of psychopaths at 1% out of air. They are not new. They are not exclusive to our society. They are not created they are born fir some nasty purpose in the complex progression of evolution. They suck up to strong authority figurines like Peter McKay.

          • toomanycrayons

            There is no “purpose” in evolution. The suggestion seems to be that the personality now described as psychopathic simply has enough survival potential so as to not be eliminate.

            “I will put a number on those amongst us who need a god to be good, 1%. I will put a label on those amongst us who need a god to be good, psychopath.”

            If the other 99% of us need religion to protect us from that 1%, and it’s still here, perhaps we/someone should reconsider the strategy. Your notion that they have always been with us is eerily Biblical/theistic. It mirrors the soul-junkie hypothesis that one way to improve our own chances of soul-salvation is to weed out the really bad exceptions to the rules we profess to live by (Religion=Lawn Care Hypothesis ). A good example is the convoluted RC approach to homosexuality: hate the sin, not the sinner. Paradoxically, they want their own good deeds to represent them completely, or at least the attempts to achieve them (The Rob Ford Diet?).

            So, all the faithful wake up tomorrow to find Christ/Mohammad/Buddha/Science/Whatever at the White House, and all the LGBTs and psychopaths gone: What then?

          • donniemcleod15

            Yes, purpose implies intent. What word is better.

            I suggest, like colicky babies who are more likely to survive famines, psychopaths are good for the species for famines. They can eat the dying without regret. They can horde water and lie about it. They can kill off others. They can reduce the population to ensure species survival by doing what is not helpful to the species during good times. That is collaboration.

          • toomanycrayons

            “Yes, purpose implies intent. What word is better.”

            “It is what it is.”- Brian McNamee

          • donniemcleod15

            That is too nihilistic for me. When I see a group of 5 co workers solving a complex problem together each bringing their unique attributes to create more than the sub of the parts I see evolution at its peak. I know that because they are enjoying themselves. They are at that moment avoiding the 5 regrets of the dying.

          • toomanycrayons

            TVO has a video on genetics which includes a “pro-social” psychopath as one of the foremost researchers in the field:

            http://tvo.org/video/212984/genetic-me

            They aren’t all bad, apparently. The theme of the video is that one can manipulate one’s mental/physical environment, or that of others, to cause/enable various genetic personality markers to be expressed.

            So, there’s your optimistic view: It can be what you make it. Slightly darker: what someone else decides it should be for you.

            And, that brings us back to LGBTs. The LGBT-deniers are perhaps attempting to thwart LGBT alleles, or at least redirect them. The irony is it would entail conceding that the basis for what is disparagingly called “gender dysphoria” is (GASP) scientifically valid. Oh, I don’t think they’ll want to give up that stick. Not with the fundie messaging getting so muddled…

          • donniemcleod15

            Reality must be avoided if you are to accept there is one inerrant book with all the answers. This is easy. You just default to one of two thinking processes we have. Use the thinking process that is proof we evolved from a fish. It is fast, very rational and very resolute so our ancestors, fish, reacted appropriately when they were confronted by bigger fish. They did and we are here. The thinking process is as well. It can’t understand that if Their God made a man and women how can there be LBGT. “Does not compute.” They don’t care if people suffer or even die. That is their god’s doing not theirs. They wash their hands.

          • toomanycrayons

            “They don’t care if people suffer or even die. That is their god’s doing not theirs. They wash their hands.”

            Since we’re dealing here with Michael Coren’s retreat from Roman Catholicism, it should be pointed out that St. Augustine devoted a great deal of effort to trying to establish that their All Good version of God is/was NOT RESPONSIBLE for Evil or suffering, as your post suggests. That’s what Free Will is about. He knows who’s going to mess up but lets them because they deserve the consequences they can’t possibly avoid: “Created sick; commanded to be whole [or, not.]” Keep trying, and be sure to donate to The Church. Read the stuff below and wonder if Coren even thought for a minute about where this was all leading, especially for Gays:

            ‘Evil, then, is the act itself of choosing the lesser good. To Augustine the source of evil is in the free will of persons: “And I strained to perceive what I now heard, that free-will was the cause of our doing ill.”[5] Evil was a “perversion of the will, turned aside from…God” to lesser things.’

            http://www.str.org/articles/augustine-on-evil

          • donniemcleod15

            If Augustine sat down with Dr. Robert Hare for an hour he would change his mind. He would see that psychopaths can’t be blamed for their behaviour. It is their nature. Organizations that need to lie, like Christian conservatism, are bound to attract our best of species liars, psychopaths.

            If he sat down with Victor Frankl he would appreciate as Plato observed most us don’t need Some god to be good. A few do. But they are probably psychopaths.

          • toomanycrayons

            The “Genetic Me” link I posted seems to imply that society plays a role in the expression of genetic differences. I’m reluctant to conclude that religious ritual is undertaken without at least an intuitive sense that conditioning contexts play a role in how society “expresses” itself. You reference nature frequently; think of religious dogma as a new male killing the old male’s progeny.

            Our society is so powerful and stable that we don’t have to burn witches anymore. Perhaps we simply medicate them. In less stable cultures the burning continues. Everything is better when everybody is rich? Data seems to support that. Harper Inc. likely has made the calculation that, for now anyway, howling against abortion/ for the exclusion of LGBTs hurts the bottom line.

            LIke Kevin O’Leary is fond of saying, “Money is the only thing that matters.” But, Money is an artificial value metaphor, just like Sin. A philosophical Materialist might say, Matter is the only thing that matters, and, therefore…nothing “matters.” Let’s give Nihilism a chance?

            Augustine would likely be out-gunned by most specialists in anything these days. V.H. Fallon is the pro-social psychopath in the Genetic Me video:

            http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127888976

            Neither Frankl nor Plato likely ever imagined that Fallons might actually exist. One of the participants in the video, Jay Belsky, I think, makes the suggestion that Nature selects by success for variation since no allegedly perfect example has a survival guarantee in a changing environment. Each contingency favours the adaptor, not the ideal. That’s where hardline theists fail in denying the spectral nature of Humanity. It’s the flaw in the Ordered/Dis-ordered RC mantra which Coren now finds abhorrent.

            “Nature has use for all our variations.”-Genetic Me.

            Take that, bigots? They are not the only ones wanted on the voyage, to recall Timothy Findley’s book, “Not Wanted On The Voyage.” That said, bigotry has been selected for, too; and, its institutional-friendly tools.

          • donniemcleod15

            I think the book “Thinking, Fast and Slow” allows us to think about bigotry and Conservatism as a bad habit. It’s like being a heroin addict. Self medication by people with unmanageable issues. Most U.S. heroin users who took up the drug in Vietnam stopped when they got into an enrching environment. Fox News viewers are addicts. They are hooked on the endorphins that fear and outrage create in our fast thinking process.

            The good habit is parking our fast thinking process to free our slow thinking process. This allows us to confront more modern existential threats to our species like sabre tooth cats. Never alone. Never be alone warns our species. Be with 5 others.

          • donniemcleod15

            Kevin O’Leary has not faced Death as I have done with my Huntingtons Disease. I like the top five regrets of the dying, as witnessed by Bonnie Ware the author of the 5 regrets of the dying.

            1. I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me.

            2. I wish I hadn’t worked so hard.

            3. I wish I’d had the courage to express my feelings.

            4. I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends.

            5. I wish that I had let myself be happier.

            Kevin O’Leary may one the many awfully wealthy people who just need 15% more than they have. It may be 15% more than $1 million, $3 million, $10 million…

            Happiness can be maintained if you have $100 k or less to spend a year. $ 1.00 more will not bring any more happiness.

          • toomanycrayons

            I think O’Leary would/could say he’s pretty much lived by Ware’s metric. “Happy” is a subjectively insatiable calculation, too. As for facing Death, his video is just running more slowly than yours. It will/they all end the same. In the meantime, he, too, has a Top 5-List of regret avoidance suggestions:

            http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/kevin-oleary/steve-jobs-business-lessons_b_1001669.html

          • donniemcleod15

            I have no respect for Kevin O’Leary as a model for our future wealth creators. He exploits people. He does not exploit ideas. To exploit ideas he need shared wealth models.

          • toomanycrayons

            As I read O’Leary, he’s just saying that things which cannot pay for themselves have to lie/be lies to get life-support: tax exemptions for religions, the arts, feel-good projects, puppy-rescue…the usual suspects. Why exactly are we air-conditioning art that “nobody likes” in Canada’s Art Bank, for example, while people can’t get clean water? Clean water would reduce health costs, is likely the reason the West is even viable socially. I think he makes an argument which is hard to refute, no matter how unpleasant we/I find the messenger. ( I happen to like much of the art, btw. I’m simply aware that my art tastes are not widely shared, hence the “nobody likes.”)

          • donniemcleod15

            Maybe Kevin O’reily is projecting his own inclination to exploit people into everyone else. He is definitely exploiting people who use our system 1 thinking process. Hitting the endorphin machinery that Bill O’reilly exploits in his views. Getting them all in a rage about the wrong things. Exposing waste in social services where the fraud is at 1%. To fix that last 1% is so expensive it is a waste of money.

            As for Art. Art is an economic driver. Art transforms Science and Technology.

          • donniemcleod15

            Harper is a classic Reformer of the Church since Boniface’s time in 700 AD. While Boniface used violence to make room in society for his Christian rules Stephen Harper is relying on creating poverty. That is why Stephen Harper taxes the poor to subsidize the awfully wealthy.

          • donniemcleod15

            James Fallon is a good example of how open we should be about psychopathy. It is not the psychopaths fault. However if an organization needs liars it will attract our best of species liars, our psychopaths. Stephen Harper and Christian conservstism relies on lies so it attracts, enriches and worse empowers psychopaths. It facilitates Death. It is evil. People are not evil. Organizations are evil. Organizations that create ignorance, misery so Death for Their vengful god are evil.

          • toomanycrayons

            “People are not evil. Organizations are evil.”-donniemcleod15

            Perhaps, Evil is Necessary, just like the socially/functionally Necessary Lie (Rank/Becker) that theism represents.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil#Necessary_evil

            Organisation give people the means to do evil things, but good as well. The classic response to structural evil, as evidenced in the coverups accompanying RCC abuse cases, is that the overall good outweighed the evil. Well, until donations started to fall, that is. The Roman Catholic Church is one of the top 20 corporate money sinks in the world, worth billions. What’s a little molesting, right? What’s a little..evil. The RCC is not unique according to the liability insurance industry, less offending and fewer claims, in fact. That’s comforting. Of course, when reporting means going to Hell, that might be more of a deterrent than not being allowed to sell Girl Guide cookies, forever.

          • donniemcleod15

            Evil behaviour is good for a famine. Good for the species. We can’t be expected to switch back and forth. That is why we have psychopaths. Consider a psychopath born at the beginning of a 30 year drought. The stress in his early life would prompt him to be a thug, a ware wolf, a Cyclopes, a faux knight, an outlaw unprotected by the law in hishomeland so doing outlandish crimes in an another land at 20 years age.

          • toomanycrayons

            What percent of psychopaths are either pro-social, like V.H. Fallon, or undetected? “Genetic Me” said the brain pattern can be scanned for, but not the outcomes. Can we afford to program/engineer societies to take advantage of psychopathology benefits, or should be just kill them all at birth? Does any society have a right to behave in what it considers its own best interest: does that intention justify the means? Theists apparently think so. No wonder your impression that they are led by the very people they seek to destroy. Better to be behind the gun than in front of it.

          • donniemcleod15

            I don’t know who the percentage of pro-social. I don’t think they should be killed. I think organizations that intentionally or unintentionally use psychopaths because of their ability to lie or make decisions that let others died should be killed off. I would start with Fox News and Stephen Harper’s PMO. If the number of psychopaths in either of these organizations is higher than average it should be killed as an organization.

          • donniemcleod15

            The Roman Catholic Church must have attracted, enriched and empowered psychopaths. Most of us can not inflict severe pain on another human on a sustained basis. Our empathy, remorse and regret catches up after a while and we either go crazy, need drink or we commit suicide. A few can do this with out any problem. The Roman Catholic Church has used pain. So it is an organization that needs psychopaths. As liberalism is to inquiry Christian conservatism is to inquisition.

          • donniemcleod15

            It is sad that Stephen Harper’s laws and policies used to create ignorance, misery so Death for His god will create the kind of home life a born psychopath will become a risk to society. I guess Stephen Harper knows this. It’s part of his Retorm of Canadians into becoming good Christians. There is nothing like Death to foster Christian conservstism.

      • MrJsw111 .

        Of course they have a choice. That is the BIGGEST lie of the gay mafia. No choice is a myth. Tens of thousands of people have resolved their issue of same sex attraction.

        • donniemcleod15

          Gay conversion has failed so soundly it is now outlawed. It is nothing but torture. Those who use it on others have to be psychopaths. Science tells us psychopaths are born without the empathy or remorse to inflict pain on others. Gay conversion is one more proof that psychopaths find meaning, purpose and a source of income inside Christian conservative organizations.

          • Excubitores Omega

            Fascinating how “Progressives” have an issue with youth receiving counseling after being the victims of pederasty. Or that an individual as an adult does not have the right to seek medical assistance as they see fit.

            Another sterling example of the sexual neurosis and megalomania that comprises the liberal ideology. A true credit to their ideology that.

          • donniemcleod15

            Liberalism is the philosophy that tries to deal with reality and so yes makes mistakes. Conservatism is an ideology which makes no such cognitive effort.

          • Hepley

            Chesterton was more honest and less biased than you when he observed that progressives go about their business of making mistakes while conservatives go about theirs of preventing those mistakes from being corrected.

          • Excubitores Omega

            Considering your statements one has effectively disproved that.
            Well done.

          • donniemcleod15

            The link between pedophilia and homosexuality is just one more false perception of reality of conservative Christianity. Pedophilia and Christianty on the other hand is real.

          • MrJsw111 .

            Pedophilia in the Church started when aggressive screening of homosexuals entering the priesthood went lax in the 1960s. 90% of incidents in the Catholic Church were committed by gay priests.

          • Hepley

            You are correct. This used to be a staple of Michael Coren’s arguments, as I stated above. It isn’t anymore, nevertheless it’s true.

          • Hepley

            Almost all of the priests who abused boys were gay, donnie. Many of them had homosexual relations with other adults. This is a fact. Michael Coren used to make this point clear all the time. He doesn’t anymore, naturally, but it remains true.

          • donniemcleod15

            At what age or stage of maturity is sexual attraction no longer pedophilia?

          • Hepley

            At the age that the kid hits puberty. Then sexual attraction to that kid is called ephebophilia. It’s all illegal and immoral, of course, but soon to have its own float in the big parade.

          • donniemcleod15

            Thank you. I agree with you thst any person of the cloth who has a sexual relationship with child or youth should be punished. I still don’t understand why you claim homosexuals are pedophiles.

          • Hepley

            You don’t have a “sexual relationship” with a kid. You rape them. About 90% of the filth unworthy of the name priest who abused kids were also homosexuals. Was that a mere coincidence?

          • donniemcleod15

            Yes. Statutory rape is rape. Are you saying it is common that male clergy are both pedophiles and homosexuals? Time to get rid of all that patriarchal nonsense.

          • Hepley

            When a teacher is caught diddling a student, as often happens, do you call for an end to the education system and schools? Probably not. It is time, however, to stop letting homosexuals who can’t remain celibate become priests. Same deal with heterosexuals who can’t remain celibate.

          • Excubitores Omega

            Ah yes another sterling example of the left’s inability to grasp either truth or rationality.

            One’s calumny would have an iota of accuracy were there a pronouncement in Christian theology or tradition that the sodomizing and raping of youths was in accordance with Christ’s teachings. Yet one does recall that the particular individual whom the religion was founded after had a few pointed words as to what would occur to those who harm a child.

            It is however quite in keeping with the “Progressive’s” concept of not being “judgemental” as after all “love is love” as they have shrieked and there is no morality other than what one sees in the mirror.

          • donniemcleod15

            I agree with you. For example I know Stephen Harper will use his Christian conservative economic stupidly to kill Canadian children. I am outraged by this. He reminds me of the St. Boniface picture with his sword impaled in the Bible representing his use of violence despite what the word of God says. That was after 666 AD when killing innocents became a vital tool of mission work.

          • Excubitores Omega

            Indeed after all letting Canadian (much less any working individual irrespective of nation) keep the money they have earned of their own efforts will result in their children being slain.

            As for St. Boniface one does thank one for reminding us all of the anti Christian (much less religious) animus of the left as they will go to any lengths to deceive.

            The sword piercing the bible represents his martyrdom at the hands of the Freisens along with thirty seven others. He held his bible up to his heart and the sword pierced both.
            A worthy death in preaching the truth and living up to its demands.

          • donniemcleod15

            I offer this article as one proof that Christian conservatism of Stephen Harper facilitates Death.

            http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121395/john-kasichs-passion-poor-rankling-conservative-christians

          • Excubitores Omega

            The New Republic? One moment as one must stop laughing as considering that as a legitimate source of information much less wisdom in any aspect of existence.

            The facts are that government cannot raise any man yet only take from them. Christianity asks its followers to aid those less fortunate than themselves not to hand over that responsibility to the state for it cannot nourish the soul nor heal it either.

            All it will do is create weakness and a sense of entitlement over the long term that will destroy that individual and eventually the state they reside in. Though considering the damage already exhibited in Western nations it will be a miracle to avoid total collapse as none of them are fiscally sound.

            As an example the US is now eighteen trillion in debt and rising. They and all other states can delude themselves into the false belief that they can print their way out of this yet reality has a way of reminding one of the truth.

          • donniemcleod15

            We disagree about so much. Without the state the psychopaths amongst us will will wreck everything.

          • Excubitores Omega

            Fascinating one mentions “psychopaths” as the mob is the standard weapon of all leftist totalitarians in their drive to obliterate freedom.
            The state is a leviathan that must be chained (as so intelligently exemplified in the US Constitution) with checks and balances to protect the citizenry from both the state itself and the mob.

          • donniemcleod15

            I often wonder what people of history would have written if they understood that
            1. 1% of any population are psychopaths.
            2. We have two thinking processes. One is proof we evolved from fish. This is easily manipulated by our species psychopaths.

          • Hepley

            I’m very sorry to read that you have Huntington’s Disease. I admire your strength in living with it.

          • donniemcleod15

            I need your help for my family with our Huntington’s Disease.. Vote but not for Stephen Harper.

          • Hepley

            And how will that help?

          • donniemcleod15

            1. Stephen Harper says he is protecting private property rights. You might thing that would include your DNA. There is no protection of genetic descrimination in Canada. An employer or insurance company can demand your DNA. Evaluate for genetic diseases like Huntingtons Disease and make business decisions. Decisions that protec company profits or personal incentive plans. It’s part of his self regulation for business ideology. It trumps your ownership of your DNA.

            http://www.ccgf-cceg.ca/en/about-genetic-discrimination

          • donniemcleod15

            I had to understand what drives people to comit suicide. It’s part of my defence for my Huntingtons Disease. Being uneployeed has people, especially young men world wide, committing suicide. I can’t square this observation with your claim that all people are intrinsically lazy.

          • Excubitores Omega

            “I can’t square this observation with your claim that all people are intrinsically lazy”
            Kindly do attempt to read the previous post and determine where one stated that was the case?
            Not all are “intrinsically lazy” however if there is no incentive to seek work or re train due to a constant stipend from the state that is what will afflict many over time and even over generations (not to mention the left’s constant canard that capitalism at its basic level does not actually work and must be controlled by the state.)
            Citizens need a functioning economy that produces employment at various levels/fields and an education system that prepares both new and current workers with skills that allow them to be viable employees, As well the spirit of invention and entrepreneurship must be acknowledged as a driver for the economy at the local level.
            Unemployment can be one of many stressors that lead to suicide yet that must be countered on the individual level as the number of factors as well as each individual is a unique case.

          • donniemcleod15

            You are so out of date about the knowledge of what has people working. You must be out of touch.

          • donniemcleod15

            Have you watched this short video?

            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

          • donniemcleod15

            The U.S. debt is partially the falt of the Christian conservative polititians, supported by Stephen Harper, killing of Iraqis and destroying Iraqi infustructure for what half a dozen Saudis did. This Christian conservative military stupidity has given leverage to the Islamic State.

          • Excubitores Omega

            And the delusion and outright deception continues unabated yet hardly surprising.
            ISIS did not come into its full power until the current disgrace who holds the Office of President made the catastrophic decision to remove all remaining US force from Iraq to the exclusion of even a base for drones. Coupled with his feckless and meaningless position regarding Syria he allowed ISIS to take full form even after being warned by allies and his own intelligence assets they were amassing out in the open for a year. Had US troops been stationed in Iraq ISIS would not have taken form nor slaughtered thousands of men, women, and children whether Christian, Muslim, Yazidi, or any others.
            Had the US real leaders (not to mention the West) ISIS would have been near obliterated then with air power alone at that time. Even now if the US unleashes its full capability ISIS would be exterminated in three weeks. Yet that demands a leaders who does not suffer from leftist self hatred of their own nation to the point of allowing the first Caliphate to be re born to the suffering of innocents.
            As for the debt that is a monster that has been growing for decades since the entitlement state was created and maintained primarily by Democrats yet as well by supporsed “Republicans.” There have been some attempts to wrest control of the speeding train and head it away from the cliff mostly by Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats yet with Obama’s now amassing more debt than any President in US history before those efforts are wiped away.
            How conveniently the left (who supported the Iraq War) forget that all intelligence agencies globally agreed that WMDs were present at the time of the invasion. They were certainly present before as one needs but inquire of the slain Kurds and Iranians who had them used against them. Whether he destroyed them all and/or shipped some to Syria is not fully known. There is also the fact of the destruction of Saddam’s nuclear program earlier thanks to Israel’s air attack on his reactors which prevented a North Korean scenario from materializing (though not an Iranian one it appears.)
            Indeed there has been military errors on the part of this buffoon of a President that has resulted in the current slaughter and the creation of another terrorist state to export death across the globe.

          • donniemcleod15

            ISIS is something to fear. One reason is the destruction of Iraq by Christian conservatism. This has created a generation of young men, now 20, who want revenge for the brutality of people like you. As with the Friesians the overreaction to the death of Boniface by Christians created a cycle of vengful slaughter that echoes today, 1,500 years later.

          • Excubitores Omega

            One understanding of facts and history is astounding in its utter separation from reality.

            Iraq was not destroyed by “Christian Conservatism” as Iraqi Christians, and others have been living in the state for centuries (much less the Holy Land.) The Iraq invasion removed a dictator (which is again utterly amusing this hypocrisy of the left as they are always making an issue of dictatorships until a Democrat is in power) and offered the peopled of Iraq the opportunity to create a new system of government that would at least have the possibility of greater freedoms bereft from state tyranny.

            They acted on that opportunity yet that is not a task to be completed easily nor with rapidity. Sectarian violence fuelled from both within and without has been part of the battle to stabilize and secure what was gained.

            As for ISIS being a “generation of men who want revenge for the brutality of people like you” that is the standard children’s playground behavior that is supposedly to make up for a lack of intellectual rigor amongst the left.

            ISIL was created out of Al-Qaida in Iraq in 2010 and grew to encompass membership of Islamists battling for control of Syria led by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. It presently seeks to gain members from across the globe who wish to overthrow Western civilization and establish a world wide Caliphate.

          • donniemcleod15

            The Christian conservative president Bush Jr trashed Iraq. There was a plan not to trash it. He choose to trash it. A ten year old boy then is twenty today. He has no education. The place was trashed. He has seen his family members killed and maimed in the trashing process. He was going to be middle class in Iraq working at the telephone company or as a teacher at a school or Doctor at the hospital. You Christian conservative’s took that away from him. We will pay the price. Trashing more places will not stop him. It will give him meaning and purpose. He and his buddies. Here is why.

            http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/repository/dcl_SmallUnitCohesion.pdf

          • Excubitores Omega

            Re read what one posted above as to the Iraq war, origin of ISIS and regarding the possibility of freedom in Iraq without having Sadam’s regime abduct one or their family for an evening of torture and rape (barring they even re appear the next day.)

          • donniemcleod15

            I agree Sadam had to go. The infrastructure did not have to go with him. The country did not have to be trashed. Trashing was the stupid decision of a Christian conservative leader. The Islamic state concept is easy for the average psychopath to pick up and lead with. Kill one today and another will pop up tomorrow. I am less worried about the leadership than the millions of 20 year old young men fighting for their buddies.

          • Excubitores Omega

            Assuming one agrees to remove the prescription against assassination of foreign leaders that was a US President’s Executive Order and that one could accurately target Sadam (who went as far as to use doubles) since they were unable to do so during the war. As well that his removal would as a given cause the new leadership to surrender to the coalition that was.

            As for them “fighting for their buddies” that is open to debate. This more requires a replacement or alteration of the animating theology/philosophy of the Islamist doctrine of the Al-Qada offshoot they are.

            In any event they will not defeat us and they can be piled up as a mountain if needs be.

          • donniemcleod15

            The stupidity of Christian conservatism came with the destruction of Iraq and not using the plan in place to protect the infrastructure. It is typical of Christian conservatism to ignore reality and make everything worse. The war of drugs is another case of a Christian conservative created disaster started by one of your own, Bishop Brent.

          • Excubitores Omega

            More that is a description of “Progressives” and their inability to grasp neither history (which they are re writing as it serves their purposes herein) nor absolute truth as it interferes with their megalomania.

            One’s assertion that infrastructure was destroyed without regard is laughable as unlike totalitarians the West strives to limit the damage to human life as well as physical structures as much as militarily feasible.

            Hmm from Iraq to the “War on Drugs” is it (which is always amusing considering they are the cause of it by their behaviors.)

            Fascinating if not on topic. Yet in the finest liberal tradition legalizing controlled substances would be a great success with the millions of citizens addicted and easily both controlled and catered to by an all encompassing government. At least those who were not murdered outright or slowly as the end would be the same.

          • donniemcleod15

            I talk often with a Canadian who was with the U.S. Military at the pointy end of war for the last 10 years. I talked to an Iraqi friend who worked on a plan to save the Iraqi infrastructure. The plan yo safe the infastructure was rejected the infastructure was destroyed. The Iraqi people could not understand why. It was done with intent.

          • Excubitores Omega

            If that was the case then one would have informed one of the basics of military operations. As was mentioned above infrastructure will be destroyed in any military engagement as fits the objectives to be accomplished.

            It Is called “war.”

          • donniemcleod15

            As you say the war on Iraq was to get rid of Sadam. That was a lie. The war was to destroy the infastructure of Iraq and kill 1 million Iraqi directly or indirectly. That was accomplished for $ 1 trillion dollars. The result of that success is the Islamic State with a million 20 year old young men keen to overcome the obvious injustice. Once in the fight they will stay for their 5 buddies. As war historians point out this unit is the motor of war. They win wars. Idiots like our Christian conservative Stephen Harper win battles but always loose wars.

          • Excubitores Omega

            More liberal insanity as usual which is at least consistent.

            One is always amused as to the conspiracy theory inanity presented. The US intended to “kill 1 million” Iraqis for some unknown reason and as well to “destroy the infrastructure?’

            And again ISIS was constructed from AQ in Iraq and any others inspired by the Islamist theology/philosophy.

            As for defeat that is more idiocy as when the US left Iraq the situation was not peaceful yet stable and improving. Certainly in no manner the state we find ourselves in now. The war was won and now is being lost as this disgrace of a President and the West will not simply exterminate this filth once and for all.

            Yet being a liberal that is hardly surprising as they will always find a way to snatch defeat from the hands of victory to appease their self hatred.

          • donniemcleod15

            It’s was a noble lie so it is not duplicity. Stephen Harper is the type of evil Christian conservative who is confident His god will accept liars in heaven. The lies have to be good for Stephen Harper’s god and HisChristian and Missionary Alliance Church and like minded Churches.

            http://www.salon.com/2015/03/01/its_worse_than_scott_walker_and_ted_cruz_secrets_of_conservatives_decades_long_war_on_truth/

            http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/ted-cruz-isnt-idiot-hes-delusional-and-thats-far-more-dangerous

          • Excubitores Omega

            One is thankful for the opportunity one is presenting to illuminate the utter lack of facts, reason, sanity, and anti Christian animus that inhabits the left.

            One is a credit to their ideology.

            Well done indeed.

          • donniemcleod15

            I have enjoyed our discussion. Here is something I wrote to explain my reality.

            For 10 years I been living with the idea that an enriching environment will delay the onset of my families Huntingtons Disease. I can today say with confidence.

            “It is now known that many other genes (susceptibility genes) as well as environmental factors can influence the actual age of onset. 40% of the age of onset variability is thought to be due to other genetic influences and 60% environmental.”

            Dr. Doug Hobson Department of Internal Medicine (Neurology), University of Manitoba

            This has unfortunately led me to the conclusion that Christian conservatism is an existential threat to at least half of my family of 24. I must conclude that life spans are irrelevant in Stephen Harper’s conservative utopia. Here is one proof.

            “Stuckler and Basu argue that investing $1 in public health programs can yield as much as $3 in economic growth, because it not only saves lives, it spurs economic recovery. They also argue that we should treat joblessness like a pandemic, because unemployment is a leading cause of depression, anxiety, alcoholism and suicide.”

            https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201305/how-austerity-kills

            Stephen Harper is resolute, “Civil government exists to implement God’s laws”. This is what he actually said.

            “The real challenge is therefore not economic, but the social agenda of the modern Left. Its system of moral relativism, moral neutrality and moral equivalency is beginning to dominate its intellectual debate and public-policy objectives.”

            “This descent into nihilism should not be surprising because moral relativism simply cannot be sustained as a guiding philosophy. It leads to silliness such as moral neutrality on the use of marijuana or harder drugs mixed with its random moral crusades on tobacco. It explains the lack of moral censure on personal foibles of all kinds, extenuating even criminal behaviour with moral outrage at bourgeois society, which is then tangentially blamed for deviant behaviour. On the moral standing of the person, it leads to views ranging from radical responsibility-free individualism, to tribalism in the form of group rights.”

            “The other philosophy is Burkean conservatism. Its primary value is social order. It stresses respect for customs and traditions (religious traditions above all), voluntary association, and personal self-restraint reinforced by moral and legal sanctions on behaviour.”

            “real gains are inevitably incremental. This, in my experience, is harder for social conservatives than for economic conservatives. The explicitly moral orientation of social conservatives makes it difficult for many to accept the incremental approach. Yet, in democratic politics, any other approach will certainly fail.”

            http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4629.html

          • donniemcleod15

            And here is my philisophy of life which is incompatible with Stephen Harper’s evil Christian conservatism.

            The Art of Getting up in the Morning

            I need to get up in the morning.
            I need the transition of dark to light.
            I need the blue light from the sun.
            The light distorted as it travels through the
            horizon.
            If I don’t after two weeks my body will want
            to sleep all day and stay up all night.
            That is our nature.

            I need to get up in the morning.
            God is not going to get me up.
            A nagging spouse is not going to get me up
            Fear of consequences is not going to get me
            up.
            It will keep me in bed.
            I have to get my DNA to want to get up and
            face the day. That means I have to convince my own
            DNA, that as a collaborative monkey, I am
            contributing.
            I must prove to it I have meaning and
            purpose. It has to be real. That is our nature.

            I need to get up in the morning, to eat well,
            to go for a 2 hour walk for the BDNF so I can
            produce new brain neurons. That is our nature.

            I need to get up in the morning to ask of
            others and learn, discuss, ask questions,
            be terribly wrong, listen, think, project,
            assume, verify, articulate and write.
            All that leads to production of new brain
            neurons. That is our nature.

            I need to get up in the morning knowing
            that over the last week someone said
            something with that incredible tone of voice
            that means I have made other’s lives better.
            That means it is very likely to happen again
            in the next week. That is our nature.

            I need to get up in the morning to go to bed
            at night at 10 p.m. for a full night sleep with
            the short and long term memory shuffling
            that comes with dreams and restorative cel
            work that comes during sleep. That is our nature.

            I get up in the morning because I know
            each day will be exceptionally wonderful
            and that takes my mind way beyond my
            physical limitations, including that broken
            part of my brain.
            As the poem I once read to my kids revealed
            to me; “Good morning, good morning,
            its time to face the day, first we’ll have
            breakfast and then we will play.”

            Don McLeod

          • donniemcleod15

            I don’t consider liberalism an ideology. Liberalism is the philisophy which tries to deal with reality and yes makes mistakes. Conservatism is a ideology that makes no such cognitive effort.

          • Excubitores Omega

            One has one’s own posts and those of every other Conservative in the past present and future to disprove that.

          • donniemcleod15

            I partially agree. In 10 years conservstism will be known as the lazy habit of using one of our two thinking processes. The thinking habit that is proof we evolved from fish. It is too fast, too rational and too resolute for confronting more recent existential species threats like sabre tooth cats. It is good when confronted by fish species threats, bigger fish.

            It is my intention to help friends and family create sufficient wealth to avoid the 5 regrets of the dying by sharing the above.

          • donniemcleod15

            The Christian conservative polititians won a battle by trashing Iraq and lost the war at the same time.

          • donniemcleod15

            Fighting for your buddies is not learned. It is who we are as an evolved species. As individuals we are nothing. Collaboration in small teams is our species strength. Ignoring this is another example of Christian conservatise stupidity.

          • Excubitores Omega

            Actually it is something we all learn one simply has to inquire of the US military. Though that has nothing to do with the Muslim’s drive to conquer the world as their theology/philosophy dictates.

            Though it is endlessly amusing ISIS fellow travelers on the left whom in their un intelligent fantasy believe that using them to obliterate Western civilization will spare themselves from the same fate.

          • donniemcleod15

            Yes, the Islamic State is a threat. The reason it is a threat is Christian conservative stupidity that led to trashing of Iraq and killing of a million Iriqi for what half a dozen Saudis did in NY. Christian conservativis stupidy created the problem. Until it admits this reality any Christian conservative advise must be ignored. It’s actions, including Stephen Harper’s, should be recognized as only making matters worse.

          • Excubitores Omega

            One must offer congratulations on one’s inability to deal in the facts yet being a liberal that is par for the course.

            And now for something completely different for liberals namely the truth.

            Once again, the US and its allies did not invade Iraq the second time due to the attack on 9/11 yet due to the intelligence community determining that Sadam had a viable chemical weapons stockpile and manufacturing system in addition to refusing the UN’s weapon’s inspectors. (As an aside there has been some debate as to Sadam’s actual goal in this entire affair. He may have intended to actively fool the Iranians into believing that he still possessed WMD yet believed the CIA would see through the deception and thereby allow the sanctions to be lifted and thereby facilitate his re activation of all his WMD programs. Intelligence gathering being what it is and never an easy nor exact science the intelligence systems of the West were unable to determine this at the time.)

            Indeed one does tend to ignore liberals in their advice as it has proven to be such a departure from reality.

          • donniemcleod15

            That was one of those Christian conservative politicians noble lies.

            “On Tuesday night, former CIA Deputy Director and Bush’s intelligence briefer Michael Morell appeared on MSNBC’s “Hardball,” where he, under an amount of good cable news duress, admitted that the administration intentionally misrepresented intelligence.
            The show played a clip of Cheney saying, “We know [Saddam Hussein] has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons.”

            “Was that true or not,” host Chris Matthews asked.

            “We were saying–”

            “Can you answer that question? Was that true?”

            “No, that was not true,” he finally said.”

            http://www.salon.com/2015/05/20/george_w_bushs_cia_briefer_admits_iraq_wmd_intelligence_was_a_lie/

          • Excubitores Omega

            Any shred of credibility one had was obliterated when one used Salon and Chris Mathews as sources.

            The facts stand for themselves no matter how one attempts to re write history.

            We leave the deception to the left as that is all one has.

          • donniemcleod15

            Are you are telling me Michael Morell lied a few days ago that he lied to Americans 10 years ago? If he lied he lied would he not have lied 10 years ago.

          • Excubitores Omega

            Repeating that ad infinitum will not alter the facts of why the US invaded Iraq.

            This is not a case of duplicity yet of accurate assessment of information that was available. And for those unaware this has been investigated (unlike the Benghazi debacle) by joint committees that found the same.

          • winteryblackknight

            You are leaving out the Sunni – Shiite divide

          • donniemcleod15

            That was the point of destroying the infrastructure in Iraq. To get the Sunni and Shiite to kill each other. The collateral damage of getting Christians killed in the middle east is ok. They are not white Christians.

          • donniemcleod15

            Christian conservatism thrives only if there is ignorance, misery and Death. It is a rot. St. Boniface started in all.

          • Excubitores Omega

            Considering the history of Western civilization, its underpinnings in Christianity, and its role as hand maiden to science that statement is utterly amusing in it’s utter vacuity.

          • donniemcleod15

            Did you read the article in the New Republc. I can see why you won’t find that information on Fox News. It is proof that Christian conservatism only coagulates properly with Death. It facilitates Death. It is a cult of Death.

          • Excubitores Omega

            Unlike the left one did read the usual fabrications and actually one will find both sides of the argument on both Fox News and many other Conservative outlets as actual debate and freedom of speech (as well as a few other God given freedoms) are welcomed.

            Death cult is an accurate description of the Left and their totalitarian phantasmagoria of slaughter and carnage they have engaged in across time from the French Revolution, through the twins of Nazi Germany and Communist Russia, to the present with China, North Korea, and their fellow travelers in ISIS.

            Though one is thankful for another display of the malignancy of liberal ideology in its entirety.

          • donniemcleod15

            I offer this as a proof that even today in a small part of Holland St. Bonaface is rembered as a Muslim employee of mine once described his memory of the crusades.

            “Throughout the centuries the Frisians have been accustomed to the idea that their ancestors were barbarians: a primitive and violent nation, as proven by the murder of Boniface. A nation that preferred the sword and primitive violence to the civilisation represented by the Book as shown them by Boniface. But there has been a change in this deeply ingrained self-image. New and quite different connotations have become attached to the Bonifatian attributes of sword and book. For the sword may just as well symbolise Boniface’s violent rejection of traditional culture and religion. And it may be extrapolated as a symbol of the military expansionism that accompanied missionary work. Here we have a kind of reversal of perspective: the violence of the sword was used not only by those ripe for the missionary, but by the missionary himself. Not only was Boniface the (only) victim of Frisian violence but the Frisians themselves fell victim to the violence of the missionary. The symbolism of the book as attribute is similarly endowed with new connotations. The pierced Bible now symbolises the message of the Gospel being violated by the brutality of the sword. The way in which Boniface used the sword has, in this interpretation, violated the message of the Christian Gospel. Auke Jelsma may thus wonder whether Boniface’s use of violence did not transfix and mutilate the biblical message.[170]”

          • winteryblackknight

            You are showing your bias and stupidity.

          • donniemcleod15

            You are proving we evolved from fish. You have chosen the wrong thinking process to be able to deal with reality.

          • donniemcleod15

            If gay conversion just sets people up to comit suicide it should be outlawed.

          • Excubitores Omega

            “just sets people up to comit suicide”
            Indeed yet somehow those who have been helped by said therapy are still walking about. That is not to say that the tragedy of anyone taking their life is acceptable as the entire point is to offer one peace and assistance however nor does that by definition indict the psychiatric activity (as suicides have occurred to even those undergoing treatment unrelated to this issue.)

          • donniemcleod15

            Gay conversion thereby is far more likely to have people comit suicide than cure their homosexuality.

          • Excubitores Omega

            Of course and as is said in the US “And you can keep your health care.”
            Rather one will examine those who have sought it out to help themselves and determine if it has been of any assistance.

          • donniemcleod15

            It cost $10,000 per year person in the U.S. for health care. The lowest incomes earners in the U.S. can not afford for that cost. Christian conservative polititians have created a tar pit for any one not white with wealth.

          • Excubitores Omega

            Let us play Devil’s Advocate and assume those are accurate numbers.

            How does that justify destroying the current insurance system and causing millions of US citizens to lose their health care causing deaths for some who will even lose their doctor’s while undergoing life threatening procedures such as cancer care? The costs are not diminishing as promised (which deception was that one now out of how many?) yet increasing with deductibles nearly doubling as more components of the “bill we had to pass to know what was in it” are revealed.

            Obviously it does not and nor does it justify the Obama cabal’s un Constitutional dictate that forces US citizen’s to purchase a product (or is it now a tax that is not a tax yet it was argued a tax.) Not to mention the threats to religious freedom of various religious institutions and bodies providing health care (the palliative work by Little Sisters of the Poor as one example.)

            The US health care system is not a disaster yet nor is it perfect (not that any sane individual believes perfection can be achieved.) However there are alterations (allowing cross state insurance shopping to name one) that can be made to address health care for all US citizens that do not cause this over budget disaster.

            “Christian conservative polititians have created a tar pit for any one not white with wealth.”

            Thank you for once again displaying the standard left irrational anti Christian animosity as well as racism. Though one was intending to include the Democrats in that tripe as well was one not?

            And one can keep their health care…

          • donniemcleod15

            Affordable health care for all is vital for economies. You can do this by single payer, subsidizing the cost or imposing salaries that can afford the cost. The U.S. System is not efficient in terms of money spent or effective in terms of life spans. Those who apposite providing health care have a distorted understanding of humanity.

          • winteryblackknight

            The sacraments of Penance and Eucharist are much cheaper. God’s grace can do wonders

          • donniemcleod15
          • winteryblackknight

            But they do. Don’t rely on the NY Times

          • donniemcleod15

            Prayers don’t work because Your god is just a product of our fear based thinking process so another proof we evolved from fish.

          • donniemcleod15

            Here is St. Boniface with his Bible impaled with his sword he used to kill innocents as Stephen Harper is doing with his Christian conservative economic stupidity.

          • Excubitores Omega

            Congratulations on discovering the image at least if not the historical and present accuracy of the statements.

          • donniemcleod15

            I like it. I am amazed that St. Bonface’s echo is of his violence in a small corner of Western Europe. I am not surprised of your Christian sanitized memory. I am pleased that there is another. The pagan’s memory. One so typical.

          • Excubitores Omega

            What is typical is the left’s unending need for obfuscation and prevarication as exemplified herein.
            What is echoed (not that one would understand it) is his sacrifice to his faith to preach the Good Word to all he encountered.

          • donniemcleod15

            No. Boniface destroyed indigenous religious symbols. For that he was punished as per the law of that land, Death.

          • Excubitores Omega

            He was murdered along with thirty seven others for preaching Christianity which is being echoed once again today. Though speaking of death cults that is an accurate description of their presence.

          • donniemcleod15

            Much of what you think is true about Boniface were lies to enhance Boniface and protect Christianity.

            “Willibald’s construction may seem plausible, but is unconvincing. And for two reasons: the main one is that Willibald fails to give a reason why Boniface went to the Frisian Lands in 719 at all. Was he, by working in the Frisian Lands, in a state of disobedience to the Pope for several years, and did he remember his original mission only at the moment at which Willibrord offered him a position as bishop? This seems a very improbable move in the life of the impeccable priest Boniface. Secondly, Willibald’s construction leaves us with impossible dating. Unfortunately for the author of this hagiography, we posses the exact dates of Boniface’s first mission in 719 and his oath taking as bishop in 722. ”

            http://hinnewagenaar.frl/articles/boniface-and-the-frisian-lands-revisited/

          • Excubitores Omega

            According to this author at least though others may disagree.

          • donniemcleod15

            http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willibald lied. As Martin Luther wrote “Martin Luther “What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church…a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them.”

          • winteryblackknight

            It is my belief that Paul preaching of Romans 1 is what began the Roman persecution. Nero was a bisexual.

          • Excubitores Omega

            History will repeat itself if we do not learn from it and change it.

          • Red_Tory

            In fact, Boniface was killed by a group of armed robbers. Before he was killed, he persuaded his armed companions to lay down their arms, saying: “Cease fighting. Lay down your arms, for we are told in Scripture not to render evil for good but to overcome evil by good.” The sword through the Bible is, of course, a metaphor for Boniface’s determination to use Scripture as his only weapon.

            It appears that donnie dum-dum is far too stupid and ill-informed to get this. Only a complete idiot believes or posts the kind of nonsense he does.

          • Excubitores Omega

            Agreed yet we all do attempt to educate them as to the truth nonetheless in the hopes they will gain knowledge and wisdom.

          • Sigroli

            Good luck with that…

          • Excubitores Omega

            Faint hope one knows…

          • winteryblackknight

            Sin tends to darken the mind and the senses.

          • MrJsw111 .

            Utterly false. No one is talking about “forced” conversion therapy. It is a lie of the gay mafia that “torture” is involved. Let’s talk facts for a second, and not propaganda. Some adults are just fine being gay. Well in this country they have that freedom. Some adults are ambivalent about being gay and need help affirming them in the lifestyle. They have people they can talk to. The last group are adults who have unwanted feelings of same sex attraction. They would like to resolve those unwanted feelings. But gays don’t want them to have the freedom to seek help resolving UNWANTED feelings. Why is it any of your business, or anyone else’s business, if an individual voluntarily seeks help to resolve unwanted feelings of same sex attraction?

            But we both know the real answer to that question.

            The fact that tens of thousands of people who experience feelings of same sex attraction have successfully resolved those feelings TERRIFIES the gay mafia. It puts a lie to the erroneous presumption that feelings of same sex attraction are immutable or unchangeable. They aren’t. Tens of thousands have left the “lifestyle” even after being extremely active participants for decades. People can and do change all the time.

            That is why the gay mafia cry of “freedom for all” is such a lie. How dare they rob someone of the opportunity to VOLUNTARILY seek help to resolve UNWANTED feelings of same sex attraction.

            And stop with the “science” angle. The only allowable “science” practiced these days on the issue is “science” approved by the gay mafia. If you want to read real science on the causes of being gay, read stuff published before the 1970s, when politics started ruling the “science” in this area.

          • donniemcleod15

            Would you agree using electric shock to try to change sexual orientation is torture?

          • MrJsw111 .

            Of course I would agree!!!

          • donniemcleod15

            Have your heard I about this apology.

            “Groups that promote conversion therapy often point to a single study to support their work. In 2003, famed psychiatrist Robert Spitzer, who spearheaded the removal of homosexuality from the American Psychiatric Association’s mental disorder list in 1973, reported in the journal Archives of Sexual Behavior that interviews with conversion therapy patients suggested that some people could change their sexual orientation.

            The paper was incendiary and highly criticized, given that it relied on interviews with patients instead of measurable benchmarks of same-sex desires. Conservative groups were delighted to have support from Spitzer, who wasn’t tainted with religious bias or anti-gay ideology; gay organizations felt betrayed.

            In the end, however, Spitzer came to agree with his critics. There was no way to confirm that what his interviewees said was true, he wrote in 2012 to the editor of the journal Archives of Sexual Behavior. The study, he said, was fatally flawed.

            “I believe I owe the gay community an apology for my study making unproven claims of the efficacy of reparative therapy,” Spitzer wrote.”

          • MrJsw111 .

            Donnie,

            This post seems odd to me. Not sure what “research” has to do with it. It is like doing research on whether going to AA cures alcoholism. AA is a different experience for pretty much everyone. Some people get sober in AA. Many, if not most, don’t get sober. Some get sober for a while, but relapse and take up drinking again.

            Can we then conclude that AA has no benefit to alcoholics? Of course not, because hundreds of thousands of people have achieved sobriety through AA.

            Gay conversion therapy is pretty similar. Some people resolve their feelings of same sex attraction. Some do not. And others do for a while but then go back to being gay. What conclusion could research reach? Nothing, really.

            Nobody says all gay people should be put in conversion therapy. And nobody says that all people who try to resolve their feelings of same sex attraction are successful. And no one claims that people who do change, are guaranteed to stay changed.

            But we are saying two things that are self evident. One, that thousands of people have resolved their feelings of SSA and live happily as heterosexuals. Two, that anyone who has UNWANTED feelings of SSA should have the freedom to get help in resolving those feelings.

            But the gay mafia wants to restrict people’s freedom to deal with their own feelings and self-identity in the way they want.

            The ridiculousness is compounded when you consider the absolute support that transgendered people have in the LGBT community. Gays have no problems accepting that people should have complete freedom to change their gender.

            But the absolutely oppose the idea that people who are gay can change their orientation. To me that spells H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y!!!

          • donniemcleod15

            Science is an attempt to understand reality. For example if you try to change a man away from being attracted to men by using shocks to his testicles and he goes on to commit suicide Science might say this is because religion is a source of great evil. Only if there is a repeatable pattern, as there is.

          • MrJsw111 .

            The gay mafia is constitutionally unable to be honest. If someone really is shocking testicles we already have malpractice and assault laws to deal with the perpetrators. The reality is that 99% of people working in this field would be appalled at the very idea of such a thing. No credible practitioner would dream of doing such a thing. Conversion therapy has to be completely 100% voluntary. And like every credible branch of counselling the “patient” calls all the shots and is free to stop at any time. And that is the way 99% of practitioners in this field operate, but the gay mafia wants to talk about shocking testicles to twist the entire issue.

            If anyone out there is struggling with UNWANTED feelings of same sex attraction… I would recommend NARTH (secular) and Pure Passion (Christian) as places to check out!

          • donniemcleod15

            If someone wants to try gay conversion I have no issue. The perpetrator of the physical or emotional torture must agree to stop doing it to others when his victim commits suicide.

          • MrJsw111 .

            Donnie,

            These are ridiculous arguments. Have people committed suicide as a result of “conversion therapy”? I guess they probably have. Have people committed suicide because of the empty lives they experienced living the “gay lifestyle”? Yes they have.

            There are tens of thousands of people who have successfully resolved their same sex attractions. Why not focus on them? The banning of conversion therapy, the insistent that people must 100% affirm the gay lifestyle, has at its roots the same core issue. Shame. Deep down everyone knows that gay sex is unnatural and a perversion. So to overcome that shame everyone will be made to affirm the gay lifestyle, or face loss of their business, their incomes, and even their liberty (when they start getting jailed for hate crimes).

            Let people live freely. If someone voluntarily wants help resolving their same sex attractions, let them leave the lifestyle behind and live in the newness of life.

          • donniemcleod15

            This term gay mafia. None of the LBGT people I know are in a criminal organization. They have normal lives and support themselves financial with normal jobs. On a trustworthiness and honesty scale I would rank them a little higher than average. That might be because they are honest with themselves. I would not include John Baird as being honest or trustworthy. So he maybe part of this gay mafia you fear. He got close to the PM. He even infected the wife of the PM with the “gay disease” so the rumour mill says.

          • Hepley

            The rainbow flag is a kind of visual torture. It’s like a TV test pattern on acid. Why isn’t it outlawed?

      • Red_Tory

        They have no choice? Show me the science. Oh wait. You can’t.

        • donniemcleod15

          I can show you the Science but first you have to appreciate the Science that shows why you may never change your thinking on the subject. It’s a systemic flaw that comes with being an evolved species. You think like a fish thinks.

          • Red_Tory

            I have to “first” do no such thing, you intellectual pygmy. You have refused show me (real) science and I thereby accept your admission of defeat.

          • donniemcleod15

            There you go proving the Science that says you, as a fish thinker, will create incredible defensive arguments to defend your false perception of reality.

          • Sigroli

            What “argument”, you tool? I said “show me the science.” You couldn’t. End of.

          • donniemcleod15

            I am not looking to argue ith you I am looking for the truth. The best debaters don’t care about truth only about winning an argument. They are therefore the best liars. Therefore more likely than not a psychopath.

          • Hepley

            Shorter donnie: “People who kick my ass in arguments are mentally ill potential murderers.”

      • winteryblackknight

        It is hate to hate anyone at any time, not just because they think they have no choice about being gay. But are you really saying it is hate to not believe they have no choice about being gay? Isn’t that fascism? Are you not really the one who hates people who don’t agree with you?

        • donniemcleod15

          No I don’t hate. People who display viseral hate are proof we evolved from fish. They have the bad habit of using our sub human thinking process. It is fast, too rational and way to resolute. This thinking process is a vulnerability easily exploited. For example you confuse what I say with me hating you. The hate you feel for me is just me poking your fish thinking process with inquiry and reason.

    • Red_Tory

      As much as I agree with you on most of what you say here, you’re wrong about portrayal of gay affection. There’s a fair bit of it — think Sean and his vicar boyfriend on Corrie snogging or the gay doctor and his boyfriend on The Night Shift in similar straits. Perhaps not exactly tonsil hockey but close eough.

    • winteryblackknight

      But Coren won’t acknowledge that. Somehow the religious right who are so intolerant. Which raises questions about Coren. Could his brain really do a 180 swing like that? Something doesn’t add up.

  • RevnantDream

    I have several contentions with Mr. Coren.

    The least being religious since i believe God is our judge, not others in the end.

    My first is his blithely saying gay people are a genetic phenomena.No such proof exists outside the radial gay elites wishful thinking.A lot of papers by gay activists. In fact if true gays themselves will suffer since society already a wash in abortion as a sacred rite will eliminate them ruthlessly even if they have a gen that shows its genetic.

    My second is his total absence of how radical gays have forced sincere people purposelessly out of work by trying to force their beliefs on a whole society without any conscience or understanding of individual belief. Infiltrating Christian schools to latter bring lawsuits or put cake makers into penury. These are maniacs & zealots, not reasonable people.The LGBT community attacking churches while ignoring Muslim atrocities.
    Even to the point of desecration.

    This amounts to forced conversion. Nor does he mention the rise of pedophilia , grooming or the moral sinkhole schools have become from this intransigent group.To even state a belief against it can make you a social piranha these days.There is no word for tolerance in this camp ,only compulsion to an agenda of sexuality devoid of any gender.

    My third contention is that as family becomes obsolete so does child raising become a state function.
    He leaves out how societies that embrace this belief die fast. As for love , when the average gay has over 100 liaisons a year that is not normal in any bodies books.

    Monogamy in gay culture is as rare as real Christians in churches these days, or ever. Not to mention the diseases born of this lust.It is its own culture . Now being forced willy nilly on us all, as school children are groomed for the sexual proclivities of a debauched school system, increasing run by chicken hawk predators. I include heterosexuality as well.

    I see this personally as a break down of a civilization in crisis. Who have left any morality sexual or social behind it. Honor has fled, good is bad, evil cool. In all aspects. Self restraint is mocked whioe materialism & nihilism has become the bench mark of values.

    No Mr Coren its not you or gays that are the subject, but the ever growing monolith of self indulgence with weak thinking that dominates this dying culture.

    Gays should have all the individual rights God has given us as any individuals, but to exalt this behavior as superior or normal is plain nuts. Like men mutilating themselves, pretending to be women by body sculpture.When they have periods & certain brain areas function the same, than they can maybe get away with it. That we are seeing child sex now being normalized should alarm even the most dense of how far we have fallen in thought.

    From the scripture where all Charlie Manson’s in Gods eyes. The only thing that separates us is sincere repentance & belief in Jesus as messiah. That his was the only sacrifice for sin. man will always be sinful in every endeavorer.Not the Law, good works, or theology will save you. only Accepting Christs sacrifice for our sins.

    • donniemcleod15

      You are wrong. You have been wrong since 600 AD.

      http://hinnewagenaar.frl/articles/boniface-and-the-frisian-lands-revisited/

      • Hepley

        So not only was RevnantDream alive in 666 A.D. He was the Pope? Man that guy must be living right.

        • donniemcleod15

          I thought the agreement was you all thought as one. That was about 666 AD at the Synod of Whyby in North East England.

          • Hepley

            Yes, and you don’t think like anyone, do you donnie? You’re a complete and utterly original thinker, unswayed by popular opinion.

          • donniemcleod15

            You are spot on I am not swayed by popular option.

          • Hepley

            On the contrary, you are a Pez dispenser of same.

          • Sigroli

            LOL — He/she is, isn’t he/she? Not an original thought in his/her head.

          • donniemcleod15

            I disagree with that I am a Prez dispenser of popular opinion. One thing I enjoy in life is having interesting discussions. What I enjoy most is at the end when I hear that special sincerity of appreciation when a stranger says “I enjoyed our discussion so much, thank you.” It is one of my many ways to avoid the 5 regrets of the dying.

            Bonnie Ware, author of the book “The 5 Regrets of the Dying.”

            1. I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me.

            2. I wish I hadn’t worked so hard.

            3. I wish I’d had the courage to express my feelings.

            4. I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends.

            5. I wish that I had let myself be happier.

          • Hepley

            The 5 real regrets of the dying:

            1. Dying
            2. Dying
            3. Dying
            4. Dying
            5.

          • toomanycrayons

            “The 5 real regrets of the dying:

            1. Dying
            2. Dying
            3. Dying
            4. Dying
            5. ______”-Hepley

            Just as I suspected, the dead don’t know they’re dead, and regretting death changes nothing, just like all the cloying nostrums you and your fellow God-Ponzi fans are comically trying to peddle here.

          • Hepley

            Obsess much? You think about God way more than any Christian does. Why don’t you just “swim the Tiber” and become one?

          • toomanycrayons

            ‘Obsess much? You think about God way more than any Christian does. Why don’t you just “swim the Tiber” and become one?’-Hepley

            I was actually thinking of creating a god which coincided with everything I like about myself. May I use your example as a template?

          • Hepley

            No doubt you will. Obsessively.

          • toomanycrayons

            Let it go.

    • toomanycrayons

      “This amounts to forced conversion. Nor does he mention the rise of pedophilia , grooming or the moral sinkhole schools have become from this intransigent group.To even state a belief against it can make you a social piranha these days.There is no word for tolerance in this camp ,only compulsion to an agenda of sexuality devoid of any gender.”-RevnantDream

      Perhaps, you meant “pariah” but “piranha” works, too. OK, so you’re “Charles Manson” in God’s “eyes” by your own assessment, but…you’re promising God you’ll try harder? Come to Jesus, Charlie, and it will be as though nothing had happened! Sharon Tate and her unborn baby? Yeah, well…God’s working on that one…maybe.

      You’re just making this [expletive] up, aren’t you. No wonder Coren is having doubts, mostly about the TRUE BELIEVERS, it appears.

      • RevnantDream

        Jesus asked for true repentance, not a sorry. Not guilt feelings nor ritual, not the Law or good works , though the latter is a good testimony. Believe on me & confess with your mouth that Jesus is messiah, than repent of your sin. We are all sinners, break one law you break them all. That what I meant. Sin to a Holy God is irredeemable without excepting what his Son did on the cross. Jesus said to even think of adultery was doing it. What are your thoughts? I know mine don’t win a prise. The guy by the way who wrote amazing grace was a slaver. Jesus said it not me. As for this Pope I have no doubts Coren loves him with his socialist gay  agenda.

        • toomanycrayons

          “Jesus asked for true repentance, not a sorry.”-RevnantDream

          The people who told you/tell you what they say Jesus said want you to bend your knee. And, you do. And, you gain purpose by trying to impose it on others. No Sale. Move along, hustler. Take your clown car ontology with you. Coren has begun his journey. Watch and learn.

          • Hepley

            No one believes in the God you don’t believe in, because that God doesn’t exist. You made him up with the mind of a petulant pubescent of average intelligence.

          • toomanycrayons

            Let it go, again.

  • john s

    Mr Coren was completely convinced of the righteousness of his adopted religion until he wasn’t. Now he is totally convinced of something else. Who cares what he thinks? In a few years he will be keeping the 5 Ks or sporting a purple bruise on his head. A flake ia a flake is a flake, regardless of how convinced he is of his own superiority.

  • BillyHW

    How many pieces of silver do you have left Michael? How long do you think it’s going to last? What are you going to do when it’s all run out?

    • Hepley

      He’s going to buy a clue.

  • BillyHW

    Can someone explain to me how two gay men have sex? I don’t understand.

    • toomanycrayons

      “Can someone explain to me how two gay men have sex? I don’t understand.”-BillyHW

      Isn’t your real problem that you don’t understand why?

      • BillyHW

        ? That’s not an answer.

        • toomanycrayons

          Oh, yours was a…question? Why not simply address the issues my query represents while you’re waiting for someone else deal with your other ignorance, then?

          • BillyHW

            Why won’t you explain to me how two gay men have sex so that I can understand?

          • toomanycrayons

            No one appears to be encouraged by what you seem to be able to understand so far.

            So, in the meantime, work on this:

            “Isn’t your real problem that you don’t understand why?”

          • BillyHW

            Why are you avoiding the question? Is there something wrong with gay sex that you don’t want to talk about how it works?

          • toomanycrayons

            Why are you asking it? If you’re actually that interested in the process you might try a dedicated dating site instead of The Walrus. Why did that seem like a good idea? Better yet, simply consult Wynne’s new Sex Ed document on her government website. It’s opponents seem convinced it’s filled with enough lurid details and operational instructions to satisfy even your clearly nascent curiosity. Maybe it’s like swimming; it’s fine once your in? Be sure to post back with your results. Who knows, others may be as confused as you.

          • BillyHW

            You don’t like talking about gay sex, do you? Hmmm, are you a homophobe?

          • toomanycrayons

            How would answering that question help you with your technique issues? I’m not talking about straight sex either. Maybe you’re just too focused to notice?

    • donniemcleod15

      Don’t think about gay sex if it bothers you. If you think about it a lot maybe you are gay or even bisexual. It is a good choice in life to know who you actually are.

      • BillyHW

        How can I think about it if I don’t know how it works. Couldn’t you please explain it to me?

        • donniemcleod15

          No.

  • donniemcleod15

    “elevated the issue to a level that has no basis in scripture”. That is St. Boniface is painted with his sword impaled into a Bible. He choice to use violence over understanding though conversation for his missionary work.

    http://hinnewagenaar.frl/articles/boniface-and-the-frisian-lands-revisited/

  • Red_Tory

    And of course, Coren is over on Twitter now braying about Ireland voting in favour of same-sex “marriage”. What a tool.

    • Excubitores Omega

      As well as accepting remuneration while posing as a Catholic speaker and once made public by the Anglican community shrieks “outed by the right wing.” One wonders how long (and how much money made in the process) he intended to collect until he made it known?

      • Hepley

        People who accuse others of being on ‘the wrong side of history’ must have amazing crystal balls. I’ve never understood why any of them have jobs. Why don’t they just make billions playing the stock market or betting on sports if they already know history’s judgment.

        In other news, the Third Reich was going to last one thousand years, but, (spoiler alert), it fell somewhat short.

        • Sigroli

          The Third Reich been replaced by the Turd Reich — the Dictatorship of Inclusivity and Diversity, policed by the Gaystapo and their (many) useful idiots.

        • Excubitores Omega

          Considering the “Progressive’s” ideology is no different than the Reich’s in its insane jihad to create a Bright and Shiny Future(TM) on the bones of men, women, and children that is hardly surprising. They are always spouting that nonsense in an attempt to give their empty ideology the weight of the inevitable. Interesting how their fellow travelers in ISIS and everyone’s under appreciated mass slaughterer Stalin had the same mantra.

          The names alter as does the ideological canard they goose step under (this time around it is “rights”) yet it is the same game we have seen throughout history.

          And it will end the same as it has every other time as free people will never submit to tyranny. We have defeated them before and we shall do so again.

      • tristram

        EO – gays ‘infiltrated’ the Roman church! LOL! The Church is and always and everywhere has been an institution of, by and for the sexually anomalous – who constitute over 80% of its clergy and ‘holy orders.’ Coren vastly understates the numbers. There have been exceptional times and places where economic and sociological factors have attracted other groups to the priesthood, but for the most part, drive out the asexuals, homosexuals, pedophiles, serial adulterers, and sexually traumatized heteros (and exclude the retiree-priests who take vows as a sort of avocation after raising a family) and you are left with a minuscule remnant of ‘normal’ heterosexual males who have answered the call. The great majority, having created and perpetuated a theology that makes of virtue of their anomalies, and steeped in hypocrisy, are enmeshed in a web of mutual benefit and blackmail, hence the imperative of covering for the acts of the vilest among them and the hysteria at the fact that the lay masses are awakening to the reality of the fraud that the Church has perpetrated upon them.

    • Hepley

      Coren’s like a kid I knew about thirty years ago. He was a huge Hab fan in the mid-70s, then he became a New York Islander fanatic, and then, boom, he was an Edmonton Oiler die-hard. There was a pattern to his fandom, though I can’t quite put my finger on it.

      • toomanycrayons

        “Coren’s like a kid I knew about thirty years ago. He was a huge Hab fan in the mid-70s, then he became a New York Islander fanatic, and then, boom, he was an Edmonton Oiler die-hard. There was a pattern to his fandom, though I can’t quite put my finger on it.”-Hepley

        The pattern is that selecting a religion is just like picking a sports team, socially-driven, and similarly profound. It’s pretty clear why you can’t put a condescending finger on it: What does The Fish fan know of water? The existential fear of wearing the wrong sweater (Roch Carrier) necessitates you moving the Stanley/Soul Cup Final to an inaccessible venue with an unimpeachable referee. Pattern, meet…Hepley. ( “Ha ha.”-Nelson Muntz )

        • Hepley

          Yeah okay.

  • A Catholic

    Hello.

    I want to firstly state that I believe Mr. Coren is acting out of love, and for that I can appreciate his response, even if I don’t agree with his thoughts on everything mentioned here.

    I want to encourage Catholics, and every other Christian, not to use the term ‘gay marriage’, because the term suggests that the issue at stake is whether a homosexual person can marry, not whether a man can marry a man or a woman can marry a woman. We do not want to confuse issues here: Every person is free to marry, but no one is free, in Catholic teaching, and in other Christian schools of thought, to marry a person of the same sex. Instead of using the term ‘gay marriage’, speak about the idea of “marrying” to persons of the same sex, or simply, talk about same-sex “marriage”.

    I want to clarify that homosexual attractions, contrary to what Coren’s context seems to suggest, are generally understood NOT to be sinful on Catholic teaching. Homosexual attractions are understood to be disordered, but very few people state that attractions are sinful. Why? Well, because it is understood that attractions themselves are involuntary. What can be sinful is homosexual relationships or sex, but only to the extent that these things are pursued voluntarily. Sin always involves an element of voluntariness, at least on Catholic teaching.

    God Bless,

    A Humble Catholic Man

    • Hepley

      You are correct in everything you’ve eloquently written, including the fact that Michael Coren is acting out of love. It may be self-love more than anything else, but again, you are correct, and thanks for posting.

    • Randy McDonald

      “the term suggests that the issue at stake is whether a homosexual person can marry”

      It is.

      You remember Anatole France’s saying about the rich and the poor being barred equally from sleeping under bridges?

      • A Catholic

        Hello, Randy.

        What you’re saying is false; and we know it is false, since homosexual person can marry, even the knowledge of the church. What they cannot do is marry a person of the same sex. Thence, the issue is not about homosexuality per se, but about a person’s sex. As you can see within this link, a homosexual man and woman can marry each other, for instance: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/352575

        That homosexual persons are more likely to desire “marriage” with a person of the same sex only suggests that they are less likely than heterosexuals to marry a person to whom they’re attracted. This “rule” is harder on homosexual persons than it is for heterosexual persons, no doubt, but that would not suggest that the issue is about homosexuality per se rather than a person’s sex.

        • Randy McDonald

          “What you’re saying is false; and we know it is false,”

          No, I do not know it to be false.

          • A Catholic

            But I just told you why we know it to be false, Randy. If a homosexual man can marry a woman, whether she is homosexual or not, then a homosexual can marry. There’s no way around that logic, I’m afraid, though I welcome a proper rebuttal.

          • Randy McDonald

            You told me why you believe it to be true. I don’t not believe it, therefore the use of the first-person plural is inappropriate.

          • A Catholic

            My use of the word ‘we’ was not to be taken literally, but I suspect that you knew that.

            Why don’t you believe what I said? You haven’t explained that. I’ve given you a source, one that reports the comments of a bishop who has states that a homosexual person can marry. What do you have to say to this?

            As a matter of logic, either a homosexual person can marry, or it is false that a homosexual person can marry. Which is it, Randy? I have provided a source, one that reports that a homosexual person can marry. In comparison, you have offered no argument, source or explanation.

          • Randy McDonald

            No, I did not know that. I think I can be allowed legitimate confusion, this exchange being conducted over the Internet with someone projecting their own internal states on others. Bye!

          • A Catholic

            Hi, Randy.

            So, given the link I provided earlier, do you still believe that a homosexual person cannot get married in the Church?

    • winteryblackknight

      I would think if one engages in the sexual fantasy and masturbates he would be committing serious sin and causing the temptation to lead to an obsession. Contrary to what Mr. Coren thinks, with God’s grace one can achieve chastity and overcome obsessive temptations. He should have practised his Catholic faith a little more diligently. As Christ said ” Be holy for I am holy”. If one truly loves his brother he should not want to abuse his dignity by having sex with him.

  • A Catholic

    Coren says, “They bristle at the suggestion that gays and lesbians are born that way: that thread of biological reasoning implies God created people who are powerfully disposed toward sinful lifestyles, which seems dubious no matter your religious tendencies.”

    Not exactly. What follow from this, by implication or suggestion, is that God allows for them to have an inclination toward certain disordered behaviours, which might or might not be sinful, depending on the degree of voluntariness involved in that behavioural incidence. It does not suggest that God actively creates them in such a way. Yet, even if God were to actively create them in such a way, that would not be much more problematic than those with other “disorders” that incline some people towards potentially sinful acts, such as being a short-tempered person.

    • toomanycrayons

      “It does not suggest that God actively creates them in such a way.”-A Catholic

      Theological/ontological nit-picking greater than which anything can be imagined? Nothing actually suggests God to a mind not neurologically dependant on the tautological resolution the concept provides, either.

      -An Even MORE Humble Atheist Man.

      The Universe ISN’T about us, get it? Stop making [expletive] up. Stop promoting for the HUMBLE ego bump, too. If only the rewards of dogma were as modest as its intellectual means, what a world this might have been…

      • Hepley

        If it weren’t for false humility, you’d have none at all.

        • toomanycrayons

          Let it go humbly, then.

  • Michael

    The problem with Coren is damn near ALL his fans were Catholics or religious conservatives…

    so of course the MAJORITY of the feedback to his abrupt announcement will be negative.

    Also the fact that he took the “catholic” pay-cheques for a year while he wasn’t Catholic is outraging to the religious.

  • patrick oconnor

    i keep praying for your soul michael

    • toomanycrayons

      Why isn’t it helping?

  • toomanycrayons

    One has to wonder, to be frank, what attracted Coren (attracts anyone) to the Roman Catholic Church in the first place:

    ‘Because so much has been done about the clergy abuse story – including HBO’s stomach-turning “Mea Maxima Culpa: Silence in the House of God,” from filmmaker Alex Gibney — one might think there’s relatively little new to say. Yet Thomas’ multi-pronged report covers not just sexual abuse and the manner in which the Vatican protected such predators, but also corruption and hypocrisy that goes well beyond that, including a “don’t ask, don’t tell” culture consisting of illicit liaisons and wild parties.

    The documentary also makes a reasonably compelling inference that Benedict’s decision to leave when he did stemmed in part from knowledge of the pending investigation into misdeeds ranging from the abuse scandals to Vatican finances, as well as the impediment an apparatus within the church, the Roman Curia, presents to any attempt to alter how the institution operates.

    Given how adept the Vatican’s defenders have been at circling the wagons, there will undoubtedly be an effort to dismiss this as simply more piling on by the religion-hating media hordes. Thomas, however, builds such a persuasive case as to raise questions about how the Vatican, as a sovereign entity, can ever be changed if the onslaught of bad publicity hasn’t led to greater soul-searching already.’

    http://variety.com/2014/tv/reviews/tv-review-frontlines-secrets-of-the-vatican-1201115974/

    http://video.pbs.org/video/2365187642/

  • Manthan Rathod
  • Glenfilthie

    When my militant lesbian daughter came out of the closet I was supposed to throw away my morals and ethics and start drinking gay rainbow koolaid like every one else. The pressure was intense. I laid awake at nights searching my soul to try and accommodate homosexuality with my conscience.

    It couldn’t be done. My family tried to bully me into accepting it but I steadfastly refused. It ended up tearing my family apart – and so be it.

    So I feel for you Coren, I really do. you can polish that turd all you want, but in reality – you caved and went along to get along and today you are trying to whitewash it. I read that article and all I see is a man making lame rationalisations and excuses. I tried to do it too. It takes strength of character to admit you’re wrong and change your viewpoint; but it takes far more to stick to your guns when you are right and everyone else is wrong.

    I am not religious but I know right from wrong and homosexuality is as wrong as pedophilia and polygamy. (Get ready for those as well, Coren, because the cool kids will be jamming those down your throat next).

    Will you gawp and mumble to make those compatible with your faith and morals too? Perhaps you need more time among Christians and less with ‘journalists’.

    • toomanycrayons

      ” It takes strength of character to admit you’re wrong and change your viewpoint; but it takes far more to stick to your guns when you are right and everyone else is wrong.

      I am not religious but I know right from wrong and homosexuality is as wrong as pedophilia and polygamy.”-Glenfilthie

      You just made the calculation that your personal “family” concept wasn’t worth the effort of changing your personal “personal” concept: both learned. Why put lipstick on it? Confirmation bias, works for you.

      • Glenfilthie

        Pbffffft. And you sound like an idiot trying to put on airs of intellectualism. Just so ya know, it isn’t working for you…

        • toomanycrayons

          “Pbffffft. And you sound like an idiot trying to put on airs of intellectualism. Just so ya know, it isn’t working for you…”-Glenfilthie

          Wow, that’s disappointing. I was so hoping for your approval. That lipstick’s not your colour, btw. It’s not working for you…

          • Glenfilthie

            LOL. What can I say? It’s Friday, and too nice a day to exchange insults with the stupid kids.

          • toomanycrayons

            “LOL. What can I say? It’s Friday, and too nice a day to exchange insults with the stupid kids.”-Glenfilthie

            Not much, apparently. Yeah, there’s your airy confirmation bias, again. Say “Hello” in your head to your (gratefully?) estranged daughter for me. “Ha ha.”-Nelson Muntz

    • MgS

      I’m sorry you gave up your family over something you could have chosen to accept.

      Surely your daughter’s happiness is more important to you as a parent than anything else.

      • Glenfilthie

        I might have been able to accept the homosexuality – but the ‘social justice warrior’ mindset that came with it was unacceptable. I do not suffer fools well and when some degenerate queer thinks they are going to come into my home and family and tell me what I can say, what I can think, what jokes are funny…no. I don’t think gays should be beaten or harassed…but I will not take any crap off them. A lot of good people are siding with queers because they want to see them get a fair shake. They want to think that gays are just nice people that want to do their interior decorating and be left alone.
        Many others are turning a blind eye to the attacks the gays are mounting against the church, against children, and against families – and even against individual rights and liberties. It’s easy to ignore – especially for liberals that accept gays, family breakdowns and dysfunctional relationships as acceptable behaviour.
        She turned 30 this year. She is a part time bicycle mechanic at a sporting goods retailer in Vancouver and lives the life of the sanctimonious gay hipster. She doesn’t drive, she doesn’t have a car, she lives in some kind of commune with a bunch of other kidults that won’t grow up – and she expects me to respect her and her ugly girlfriend whose only accomplishment in life seems to be her gayness.
        I hope they are happy too MgS…but if they aren’t the circumstances are of their own making, and I intend to see that my daughter lives by the consequences of her life decisions the way I do.
        Life under the rainbow is not everything the usual suspects have it cracked up to be.

        • toomanycrayons

          “Life under the rainbow is not everything the usual suspects have it cracked up to be.”-Glenfilthie

          How does it compare with life in black and white? You’re the one with the sleepless nights spent talking to your…soul?

        • Glenfilthie

          LOL. Try harder, flimp. If you’re going to troll someone at least put some effort into it…

      • toomanycrayons

        Odd that there would be two “militants” in the same family, isn’t it? Still, who can argue (or gawp and mumble) with polishing the [notion] that you decided to leave on moral grounds rather than see yourself as being driven out by love.

        The facts as self-reported show that the family bullied him into leaving. It’s not clear that his daughter isn’t happy, the opposite in fact. “His” family is torn apart. The rest of them might be just fine with that.

        Maybe, as Coren suggests, love is natural for loving people. For absolutely conditional love, well, you’ve got religion, and then you’ve got inflexible, reductive Narcissists who spend their time polishing the disgust they feel for others, even the ones they haven’t even met.

      • toomanycrayons

        “Surely your daughter’s happiness is more important to you as a parent than anything else.”-Mgs

        Apparently, not, even at the cost of being shunted out of both “his” home and “his’ family:

        “I do not suffer fools well and when some degenerate queer thinks they are going to come into my home and family and tell me what I can say, what I can think, what jokes are funny…no.”-Glenfilthie

        Who’s laughing, now? OK, Nelson Muntz…

    • http://ShaunProulx.ca/ Shaun Proulx
  • pa

    Notice how much this article is about “I” Michael Coren? It’s all about him isn’t it? How nauseatingly self-referential. And, to boot, there are far more rigorous stories of those who change their mind about ssm – to become its opponents. This little anecdotal, illogical article doesn’t come close to being an argument. For something a bit more bracing: http://www.firstthings.com/article/2014/08/how-i-evolved-on-gay-marriage

    • toomanycrayons

      Interesting perspective, but, speaking of nauseatingly self-referential, the only vexation for Christianity, any transcendental religion, is the loss of the soul-factory conceit which flesh-only activities represent. Without that normative, Narcissistic, anthropocentric narrative, we’re all just waiting here to join the trilobites. See you in Paradise? No word back so far unless you ouija. My suggestion is that that conceit is the problem, not the cure; essentially Nihilistic for the simple reason that it obscures our actual Earth-bound situation. Which theistic incantation should we have on our lips when the Logos, its hour come ’round at last, demands its payments due and the compatible biosphere ceases to be so? While it worked for centuries as a convenient social power mechanism, however sordidly applied, is undeniable; actually believing that as a species we are…”in the world but not of it” is like thinking a 100 mph fast ball is a life skill. This is not a game we’ve been playing, and no one was ever keeping score.

  • Pingback: Coming events for Castleton & Grafton United Church: Youth Talent Show Sunday, May 31st | Cramahe Now()

  • Pingback: [BRIEF NOTE] On the pro-gay transformation of Michael Coren | A Bit More Detail()

  • Randy McDonald

    I am very impressed by the thoroughness of the change. Thank you, Mr. Coren. May I show the same courage in my own life.

  • toomanycrayons

    “LOL. Try harder, flimp. If you’re going to troll someone at least put some effort into it…”-GlenfilthieGlenfilthie

    http://thewalrus.ca/coming-out/#comment-2054404166

    I suspect that knob-polishing sub-tweet actually best describes Coren’s own situation as well: If you don’t hear the sound of your own voice, run away to some site/religion which caters to and applauds similarly motivated attention-w__res? Whenever two or more are gathered in [your] name…?

  • B.HusseinNoBama

    Coming out? Is using that term not ‘Cultural Appropriation’? The whiny baby Coren is still on about this? Sad and pathetic for man that at one time might have been disliked by some, but respected and credible to many. Now, he has no credibility and no respect — though I suspect the dislike has grown.

    • toomanycrayons

      “Now, he has no credibility and no respect — though I suspect the dislike has grown.”

      Who in this society dislikes his premise that human relationships be based on love, not dogma? That message has been nailed to a cross before, so the story goes.

      • winteryblackknight

        But love is based on truth and not falsehoods. Sex doesn’t equate to love. I have buddies I love, but the thought of sex with them is abhorrent. Unnatural sex is only about sexual gratification. Michael has become a fool.

        • toomanycrayons

          He’s going in a straight line away from religious cant/can’t, while you’re thinking in circles. “Unnatural sex” doesn’t partake of the soul-generating conceit which underpins the religious mind’s attempt to cheat death. So, unless you’re generating babies with your female buddy (or, yourself)..,what, it isn’t truth, love…or, natural? Missionary, much?

  • http://ShaunProulx.ca/ Shaun Proulx

    I am the friend Michael mentions at the end of this piece, the one with whom he had lunch. I look forward to interviewing him next week for my SiriusXM chat show about this article.

    But there are no words to describe the negative impact his prior ongoing, public stance on homosexuality / same-sex marriage have had on the sense of self-esteem and self-worth of LGBT people; Coren was just one more carrier of the message that we are less-than.

    When I hesitated for a moment to show him images of my husband, my family in response to him showing me pictures of his – at 46 years of age! – I realized how deeply messages of “being wrong” run. My issue to move through, but what also helps is the likes of Coren putting much at risk but stepping up and speaking what he feels to be true – what every LGBT person deserves to feel about themselves – that we are equal.
    The God I know is a loving God who views me as perfect exactly as I am.

    I applaud Michael Coren for stepping up and out and I am proud to call him my friend. Future generations will benefit mightily from someone like him changing his mind and heart and standing for it and he sets an excellent example that regardless of beliefs – prior or current – we can all find space in our hearts for each other – as Jesus would have done and have us do.

    • toomanycrayons

      “The God I know is a loving God who views me as perfect exactly as I am.”-Shaun Proulx

      When are both you and Michael Coren going to give up on the dualist fantasy that there is another perspective? Your collective shaming(s) and releases are the effect of the same mechanism: in the world but not of it, “contemptus mundi.” Without a natalist/soul-generating conceit, your marriage represents, and Coren supports, everything a theist fears, even the nice ones: the world ending, not with a glorious, eternal soul bang reward-sequel, but a simple, carnal hug goodbye. Changing laws does not change the game but it should/could/might make it safer.

      Existential Alert: I’m reading Kevin Aho’s recent book, “Existentialism-An Introduction.” You and Coren may have been wasting a lot of time. Clearly, Coren seems to be thinking along those lines, or should. Kind regards, tmc.

      http://www.pubmatch.com/book/113515/existentialism.html

      • http://ShaunProulx.ca/ Shaun Proulx

        Unkind regards would be a better sign-off, tmc, and to speak only for myself – though I may ask Michael his thoughts on this when I interview him for my show today – I won’t give up my belief that there is another perspective because evidence exists everywhere around you and around me that there are many ways to what you call God, what I call God. Sameness isn’t my friend, diversity is, and not just on the subject of God but on all subjects and it’s beautiful.

        Even this dialogue is evidence, so where’s the fantasy?

        • toomanycrayons

          The dialogue between Charles McVety and Michael Coren was a thing of beauty, too. My suggestion is that your faith is the mechanism by which you’re persecuted. Stockholm Syndrome?

          I’m interested in the Pope’s new rollout on The Environment. Presumably, God still needs a YES/NO Salvation crucible? LGBTQs and Women: what the hell are any of you praying for? Like all the fake/functional believers I assume it’s for the same social/financial benefits associated with belonging to anything which generates wealth and status as anyone else. Pius XI made that calculation, as it happens, with Mussolini, beginning the current revival of RC fortunes. The Church is off to Africa these days where a similar ethical environment pertains. Souls in Heaven=money in Swiss/Vatican banks? Coren must have missed that due-diligence before he signed up.

          The diversity you mention is illusory. “Contemptus mundi “covers that. It’s all…Bad. But, if you buy/plant these magic beans…(Charles Ponzi/Bernie Madoff/Mohammad/Rome).

          It’s “beautiful” that you won’t give up your belief in the mechanism which oppresses you? No wonder McVety Inc. thinks you just have to try harder.

          Clearly, my kind regards were only extended to the way you live your physical life (none of my business). There is no other life that I can see, just an socially organisational narrative. What becomes an issue for me is when the teleological/ontological hucksters get their clown cars rolling. Did you know that being naked on a mountain causes volcanic eruptions? Beautiful. Self-aggrandising pareidolia is…God. So, the roughly 500 million people who died in the 20th C. from Smallpox was…what, a divinely inspired lesson in humility? If one had a soul, perhaps. Otherwise just more crap to wade through. The soul fantasy works if everyone believes it, and…there are no flesh-centred exceptions to The Narrative. Exceptions, beware:

          “Man is the only animal which thinks it should be doing something else.”-Brian Cox

          • http://ShaunProulx.ca/ Shaun Proulx

            There are so many false premises within what you’ve written it would take me the rest of my life to untangle them. So I’ll just wish you a joyful journey – and some interesting reading: http://thegayguidenetwork.com/spirituality-outing-michael-coren/

          • toomanycrayons

            “Man is the only animal which thinks it should be doing something else.”-Brian Cox

  • Ben

    It sounds like Michael Coren returned to the secular humanism of his youth to find his way on this issue. Good for him — it’s a more honest way to live, in any regard.

    • toomanycrayons

      “It ain’t lying if you believe it.”-George Costanza

      Honesty doesn’t require that one know anything true.

      Regarding your perception that Coren has changed, he’s simply turned breeder-theology into needer-theology: Love is God in the world. Sure it is. The puppet show continues. Spot light on Michael pontificating on just who’s got enough love to get to Heaven? Not all that much more honest, to be honest. Same old ontological/sociological hammer.

      • Ben

        I don’t know whether Coren has “changed”, but he at least picked away some of the dogma that papers over his essential humanity.

        And this is what I mean by honesty: the religious/humanist war within every faith-afflicted person is a pretty one-sided battle, if you compare the outcome (i.e. human society) against the dictates of, for example, the Bible.

        In other words, we (mostly) behave as humanists anyway; the secular simply don’t pretend otherwise.

  • Mach 1

    Seems Michael Coren is a man of many words. He writes to fit the need. It’s all about $$$

    • toomanycrayons

      “It’s all about $$$”-Mach 1

      Leaving…the Roman Catholic Church would seem to have been a poor choice then:

      “Secrets of the Vatican” illuminates the challenges facing Pope Francis as he tries to reform the Vatican bureaucracy, root out corruption, and chart a new course for the Church.

      “The documentary tells the epic, inside story of the collapse of the Benedict papacy, from a far-reaching clergy sex abuse scandal, to money laundering and corruption at the Vatican Bank, to power struggles and cronyism within the Holy See, to hypocrisy within the Vatican when it comes to homosexuality.”

  • Pingback: SPIRITUALITY :: Outing Michael Coren()

  • http://ShaunProulx.ca/ Shaun Proulx

    I am the gay friend Michael mentions at the end of this piece. Here is my take on our lunch together: http://www.shaunproulx.ca/empowerment-2/anything-is-possible/

  • manthan9005
  • Pingback: Changing Your Mind | James Alan - Reality Based Magic()

  • DUMAS

    This domain of the marriage of the same sex
    stays a subject of global debate. There are, naturally, those who approve by
    simple human solidarity, and others who dispute strongly because of the ethics
    or preservative principles. Although it is there, it is an article written well
    to put things in perspective and have an idea updated by the evolution of this
    situation.

    In any case, the life requires one temporary excuse or permanent employee according to the proprieties. I always say it, to exteriorize your frustration with an e-IGC of http://www.evaps.fr/.

  • Glenfilthie

    I could hold my nose and tolerate gay marriage.

    It’s the attacks on freedom of speech, the church and the children that I will not abide. Bah – Coren can throw 125 years of classical psychology and 2 centuries of Christianity to the winds. Gays can pretend that they can be a family that is healthy and wholesome. The media can sanitize homosexuality until the cows come home. Everyone is hard at work ignoring the failures of the gay community and forcing an air of jubilation at their minor successes.

    Guys like me know that this is not good for the kids, it’s not good for the family, the community or the nation. A group of contemptible judges can rule something immoral is legal – but that doesn’t make it right. A gutless and lunatic pope can embrace depravity in hopes of bolstering falling numbers – good luck with that, by the way, Your Holiness! Legions of stupid people and liberals can crow about mainstreaming depravity and degeneracy.

    I could care less.

    Guys like me are quietly prepping and laying in stores of provisions and ammunition for the day when this idiocracy derails, and people obsessed with their genitals and liberal social experiments discover that their just society has self destructed.

    LOL – congrats to the gays and their cheerleaders, I guess. As for me, I am going to step out of the way and when the rest of you collide with the consequences of your actions – that is on YOU. Don’t cry to me about your messed up kids, your sobbing women or your dumbfounded liberal beta-men that can’t twist a wrench or fire a gun because they don’t know how – you are on your own. Rest assured, I will try not to take any pleasure in your plight.

    • toomanycrayons

      “I could care less.”-Glenfilthie

      There, I shortened for you. LOL.

      An ex-Father/Spouse of The Year who can’t stop talking about not caring. You do go on…

  • Pingback: Google()

  • Pingback: The Press Gallery #88: The Cheaper by the Dozen Edition | Edmonton Journal()

  • Pingback: Letters | thewalrus.ca()

  • Larry Jones

    hello am Larry Jones, just out here to spread the good news that just
    happened in my life few days back, i almost lost my life when my gay
    partner left me few days back after some argument over charting on him,
    i tried to make him understand that i was not, yet he got me wrong and
    left saying some words that really break my heart i have been in pain
    for few days now till i saw a post of one Rodgers on how this great
    spell caster brought back his ex with spell, i believed him at once
    because my dad always talk to me about the powers in spell, so i
    contacted this great man of Dr Blessing the man that brought me joy
    after some days of sleepless night on his email
    [email protected] and i explain my problems to him,
    he only requested for some of my details with i sent to him and said
    that my partner still love’s me, just only hurt that i charted on him,
    and he said he will never come back because he is getting over me with
    another guy some where, that all that needs to be done is just to cast a
    love spell on him to remember him of our goods times together and never
    to be able to live with me, he ask of some items with i provided, to my
    surprise Wilson just called after some hours he castes the spell
    telling me that he loves me so much that i should never hurt him again, i
    just discovered that life is so simple with spell, am living happily
    with Wilson now and we getting married soon, life is too short to be
    lived in pain so Dr blessing make me understand contact Dr blessing now
    on his email [email protected] to get all your heart
    desired solved.

  • Mo86

    What a shame. Can you explain how Christians can support something that God calls a sin?

    “Coming Out: A Christian’s Change of Heart and Mind over Gay Marriage”.

    Followers of Christ do not openly support things that God calls sin. Period.

    • toomanycrayons

      “Followers of Christ do not openly support things that God calls sin. Period.”-Mo86

      “Called” just the 4 times, apparently, and…open to debate/interpretation and well, just plain Christian lying? As one frequent fundie poster once pleaded: “Don’t judge Christianity by the Christians.” Indeed, they all appear to want to belong to a club which will have them as members if the collection/bias plate is sufficiently primed, and often.

      “Followers of Christ” are anyone who says they are. What a shame that they can’t even get along with each other: piety snobs, just like you. That might explain the 2,000 odd years of absolutely no discernible/verifiable benefit to Humanity. What, YOUR kind of Christians are getting into Heaven at a higher rate? Or, maybe just into the more expensive suites and boxes? Your fetid religiosity is just another ontological clown car which each of you presumes to be driving. Period. “Ha, ha.”-Nelson Muntz